Brian Childs

I have stopped counting but over 500 LPs , 33 EPs, a couple of dozen cassettes, and a few CDs . If my wife knew how much I had spent I suspect I would not be long for this world. However, I gave up smoking 10 years ago, I never gamble and don't drink (well not very much)! I tell her that my complete set of the original great cathedral organ series LPs have value as collector's items !

Did not Michael Murray record a set of Franck at St Sernin ? And from the LP era Marie-Claire Alain (forget where she was playing but remember the notes provided a fairly detailed comparison between the organ she was using and St Clotilde in Franck's time. Also Graham Steed on Bath Abbey shortly after the previous reconstruction Brian Childs

I had just read this when I was disturbed by a loud droning noise. At first I thought I was hearing the return of the Luftwaffe for another go at Belfast but it turned out to be a squadron of flying pigs. In 1974 Polydor issued an LP entitled Music from the Royal Weddings 1923-1973 played by Timmothy Farrell (whatever happened to him) at Westminster Abbey (2460 230 Select). Unfortunately the sleeve notes are all but non-existent and the music is from Weddings (and in the case of the Queen a Silver Wedding celebration service) celebrated in the Abbey but this does confirm the Bach F major for Princess Margaret and the Widor for the current Princess Royal's first marriage to Mark Phillips. Interestingly nobody selected the Wagner. The list reads Duke of York and Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (1923) Wedding March (Mendelssohn) Minuet from "Berenice" (Handel) Duke of Kent and Princess Marina of Greece (1934) Bridal March (Parry) Trumpet Tune and Air (Purcell) Princess Elizabeth and Philip, Prince of Greece (1947) Air from "The water Music" (Handel) Fugue a la Gigue (J.S Bach) Princess Margaret and Mr Anthony Armstrong-Jones (1960) Toccata in F (J.S.Bach) Princess Alexandra and The Honourable Angus Ogilvy (1963) First Movement from Concerto in F (Handel) HMQ and Prince Philip Silver Wedding (1972) "Jesu Joy of Man's Desiring (J.S. Bach) Princess Anne and Captain Mark Phillips (1973) Radetsky March (J. Strauss) Toccata from Symphony No 5 (Widor) BAC

Yes PRCD 866 Gillian Weir On Stage at the Royal Festival Hall, London. The Sleeve Photo is very becoming too even if theLady does seem to be wearing a wedding dress so full are the skirts. Anyone out there remember the LP "Organ in Sanity and Madness" recorded at the centenary celebrations of the RCO in 1966 ? GW performed a piece called Miniconcerto wearing what the notes stated to be a very short mini skirt. Since I was not at the concert I would not know. Anyone prepared to own up to being able to recall events of 40 years ago ? Brian Childs

It's the proof of the proposition that one man's meat is another man's poison! I must pull out the CD and have another listen. I cannot say I noticed a particularly offensive sound before. Perhaps my hearing is worse than I thought and my wife's opinion that I am deaf is the correct explanation rather than my belief that I am simply ignoring her !

I am inclined to think that this may well be correct ,however, the original question simply asked if it was forseeable that digital technology could advance to the stage where it posed a real threat. Since to be forseeable something has only to be a mere possibility rather than a likelihood or a probability, the only realistic answer to the first limb of the question is yes. The significant issues all relate to the second limb. I would not be a participant in this forum if I were not an enthusiast for the pipe organ and I find myself agreeing with many of the views expressed here. However, it would be unwise to ignore the distinct possibility that the majority opinion here is not necessarily the majority opinion of the wider worshipping community. A number of points can be made (1) In a world where accountants rule the earth little (if anything) has value which does not contribute to the bottom line. The superior quality of a genuine pipe organ does not stack up against an electronic machine that does an acceptable job at a fraction of the cost. (2) The durability of electronics as against pipes is obviously a consideration, though it has already been pointed out that a decent electronic instrument might well be expected to last for the same length of time as the interval between major work on a pipe organ, at least judging by what has happened to a number of Cathedral organs, including one we are not allowed to mention. However, the replacement of a defunct electronic is likely to be lot quicker and a lot less disruptive than the replacement of a defunct pipe organ. Moreover, it is not inconceivable that a craft of electronic organ maintainers could grow up using considerable technical wizardry to extend the life of the electronic instruments in the same way that organ builders keep pipe organs going. Another niche market for all those budding entrepreneurs! (3) The standard of musical ability and taste generally displayed by members on this board (excluding myself) appears extremely high. It is far from clear that this is the standard which would be accepted as appropriate everywhere. Indeed it appears that some of the more successful approaches to attracting worshippers in the modern world (and you need them, because you need their money) are ones which either have little regard for the contribution of music to worship and/or favour a type of music which certainly does not require an organ for its performance. (4) In terms of concert instruments , the organ recital, even when given free of charge, attracts tiny audiences with the exception of a few players. Therefore, the willingness of municipal authorities to provide the necessary funds to keep our concert organs in decent condition should not be taken for granted, especially if there is a squeeze on local authority revenues. The experience of the RFH organ surely demonstrates that even an instrument of exceptional historical importance is not guaranteed a secure future. At the end of the day the really significant question is not so much whether the digital organ has progressed to a stage where it cannot be distinguished from the pipe organ (Anyone remember Howard Goodall's TV Programme on the Organ and the experiment he conducted in the Alexandra Palace ?) but whether it has reached a stage where all the cost/benefit calculations work out in its favour. Brian Childs

Presumably that is commonly sung anthems at the places where these are still sung! In no sense am I hostile to the singing of anthems but I have never heard one sung in the church I attend now. Of course I accept that quality and quantity are not the same thing even if the spelling looks similar but it is my clear impression that anthems are now sung in only a relatively small (and constantly diminishing) number of places of worship. Even where the practice is still observed it seems that the frequency of use has diminished, so that what was a regular occurence is now confined to special occasions. The number of places where you get an anthem every Sunday is surely only a tiny percentage of Anglican churches and even smaller percentage when you count all places of worship. If this impression is right (and I would quite like it to be wrong but I do not believe it is) then the demands of anthem accompaniment are at the tail rather than the dog end and will thus be that which is being moved rather than that which is doing the moving - in other words their influence on what is going on is going to be fairly insignificant. BAC

Hi Pierre, The website you posted only links to the volumes currently released , that is Volumes 1 and 2. (PRCD 683/684). The Bristol CD will be Volume 3 PRCD 781 and the catalogue lists it as to be released during 2006 along with two further Volumes in the Karg-Elert Series and the start of one devoted to Lefebure-Wely from Liverpool Metropolitan (ie RC) Cathedral. Regards ' Brian Childs

Publication of a libel is constituted by an individual showing it (or allowing it to remain where another has easy access to it) to any person who is not the subject of the libel. (Boobytrap therefore, on first impression quite a good idea apart from the possibility of being done for causing actual bodily harm , or even GBH with intent !!) Once publication is shown in the above sense you are talking extent of publication where basically the wider you spread the message the more it costs you. However, most organists are likely to have the best defence known to the law - being an inpecunious defendant who is uninsured and not worth suing. So on balance you should remove the booby trap. The Police are not inhibited in taking action by the fact that you have no money since their overwhelming desire is to see you banged up in some penal institution, preferably with a nice selection of their unsolved cases taken into consideration, ie put on your slate. It improves the clear up rate . It is nice to to get the right criminal but it is better to have somebody than nobody. I will e-mail you my fee note !!!!

It is fascinating is it not to reflect on how we got from my original question to this point ? I am not complaining at all. It has been really interesting, and has served to strengthen my belief that there must be something in chaos theory after all. The exchanges about Howells have been quite illuminating . Since the easiest form of research is to ask someone who knows, are the swell pedals at St Paul's still of the Willis "infinite speed and gradation type" or were they changed at the rebuild ? Since I have never actually encountered any of these in the "flesh" so to speak could anyone enlighten me as to the extent to which they demand a different technique ? My understanding is that the position of the pedal controls the speed of opening rather than reflects the extent to which the shutters are open. Is this correct ? If so, would the toe under the swell pedal technique be as easy, or even possible, to employ on an instrument with this type of swell control ? Brian Childs

I think that it is generally acknowleged to be the case that the hardest thing of all to write is the short yet complete book or letter. Someone once remarked (I think it was Churchill but I have not been able to confirm this) " I had not time to write you a short letter so I wrote a long one instead." Certainly in the field of textbooks it is much less taxing to write a massive all inclusive tome than a good introduction to a subject. For the former all that is needed is diligence and a comprehensive card index (or its computer equivalent these days) but the latter requires the ability to discriminate between what it is necessary to include and what may safely be left out. This requires not only the knowledge necessary to produce the longer work but also sound judgement and the ability to separate accurately the wheat from the chaff, together with a willingness to discard all that is unnecessary or inessential to the production of an argument. Not everyone possesses the necessary skills and even those that do need to keep them honed through constant practice. Success is rarely achieved on the first draft and it frequently takes a number of attempts to get it right. I suspect that exactly the same applies to sermons. It requires more effort to distill the essence of a message into ten minutes than it does to ramble on for 20. I suspect not all preachers are equally willing to take the necessary time, though one ought to make allowance for the fact that the demands of a minister's work must sometimes mean that the time is hijacked by other demands. I would not have a particularly high regard for any minister who refused to answer a phone call from a distraught member of his flock on the basis that he was busy polishing his sermon. But that excuse plays less well in those institutions which have several clerical staff on their establishment, since at such places it ought to be possible to ensure some protected "space" for the rostered preacher. As I have said before we are fortunate in my Parish to have a star preacher whose sermons are invariably lucid, tightly focussed, make the point(s) intended and then conclude. It makes it very difficult for his curates and visiting preachers, not all of whom are by any means bad. However, in my time I have sat through my share of turgid, self-contradictory waffle . The worst seem to be the text quoters, much given to quoting texts from the Bible (usually the Old Testament) without providing any guidance as to the historical or social context of the times to which they relate, or explaining how their relevance translates to the modern world. Brian Childs

I do not know whether they did the recording but the School did publish an "own label" of (Christmas) Carols from Ampleforth where that trumpet got the occasional outing. There is also a double CD entitled Spiritus Music from the Monks and Boys of Ampleforth though I do not know the extent to which it features the organ. BAC

Hi everybody, I seem to remember reading somewhere that some larger American Concert Organs are equipped with a slider switch in the Great or Choir key slip which on being moved from left to right opens/closes the swell box. Does anyone know if this is true ? Or did I dream it ? If so this would seem to provide the obvious explanation of (and solution to ) the problem mentioned by Christopher Herrick in the notes which accompany his performance of Bossi's Etude Symphoique about the "unplayable" passage at the end where Bossi requires a swell box crescendo when both feet are otherwise engaged. Such would not be a problem on an organ fitted with such a device. And Bossi , like Dupre, was no stranger to large American organs. How useful would such a device be on a modern concert organ ? Brian Childs

I think it is possible we are mixing up 3, all recorded for Chandos by Brian Culverhouse. Saint Augustin's Kilburn was entitled Michael Austin plays Organ Favourites and was released as an LP by RCA (price 99p) as INTS 1378. The sleeve was a very bright yellow with a picture of the organ but none of Michael Austin Birmingham Town Hall 1 was entitled Organ Spectacular and featured Bach Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C , Franck Final in B flat, Liszt Prelude and Fugue on BACH, Reger Toccata and Fugue in D minor and Dupre Prelude and Fugue in B (op 7,1). (Number was 2383 227) The whole of the front of the sleeve was given over to a rather nice colour photo of the organ taken from a position which enables one to see the console with Michael standing at the right and viewed in left profile. Birmingham Town Hall 2 was entitled Organ Music of Karg-Elert and featured Kaleidoscope (op 144), Legend (op 141/1), Sonatina No 1 (op 74) and The Reed Grown Waters (op 96/4) [Number was 2400 231] The front photo on this is of a sunset over Lake Constance but on the back there is a photo of the Organ taken from stage level looking upwards to the top of the case. In this Michael Austin is standing facing the camera with his arms folded but off to one side of the image. The white dinner jacket and long blonde hair are common to both photos. Brian Childs

I'll have to get back to you on that tomorrow. I have o get up at 6 tomorrow for work and before that I have to write a (tactful) letter to explain to the members of a branch of a certain organisation whose local association I chair that they do not have the power to expel someone from membership any more following a rules revision and their action is a nullity. This will go down like a lead balloon. If anyone thought the infighting on this board was vicious.... Brian

The name that had temporarily slipped from PCND's memory is John Tuttle - the other items on that CD are the Cook Fanfare, Durufle Suite op 5 and Dupre Noel Variations. In addition to the performances mentioned above, and easier to obtain by virtue of being recent releases are Patrick Wedd playing an all Willan Programme on Naxos (so you could probably afford the flutter at the risk of not liking it - the instrument is a large Casavant contemporary with the music) and James Vivian at the Temple Church, London, (JAV156) in a disc devoted entirely to Passacaglias. Likewise recently released is Andrew Bryden at Ripon in Regent's English Cathedral Series (Vol 12 I think). Going back to earlier times I am fairly certain that Fred Swan has also recorded the work twice : once at the Riverside Church , New York, and once at the Crystal Cathedral. That should keep you going. Brian Childs

I thought that was the point.Ie you did the first to facilitate the second .In a 24/7 world where time is at a premium you have to save it somewhere. I think it was the late Gordon Reynolds who said that the advantage of adding full swell at the end of a Bach fugue was (1) it thrilled the listener and (2) saved on practice time. Personally I doubt if it is possible to hear (or at least register in the brain) all that is going on in some of Reger's denser works - the ones that should have been printed in white on black paper to save money. I have worked quite hard at trying to understand Reger but I am beginning to think that I am going to have to quit before time runs out for me, although I do quite like David Goode's Bath recordings. Brian Childs

I think you are referring to VPS 1010 Six Famous British Organs issued in 1974. They were Ampleforth - Phiip Dore : Durham - Conrad Eden: Leeds Parish Church - Donald Hunt (?? Why do so many with West Country Connections pass through Leeds: not only Hunt but Melville Cook and SS Wesley) : Hull City Hall - Peter Goodman: Bridlington Priory - Raymond Sunderland: & Beverley Minster - Alan Spedding - (the D minor Toccata sans fugue but complete with tubas ). For the benefit of Alastair (to save him rummaging around to find his copy) the 45 rpm disc comprised Fanfare & Trumpet Voluntary(Clarke arr Dore ); Siciliana in B flat (Handel, arr Dore); "Ich ruf zu Dir" (Bach); Basse et Dessus de Trompette (Clerambault); Toccata (Jongen). The first two items on the 45 were also included on VPS 1010, the remainining item being part of the Grand Piece Symphonique. Number was SP 7/2 and it was one of the first releases by Michael Smythe in 1969 , who subsequently recorded Philip Dore playing the Mendelssohn Sonatas and Preludes and Fugues at Ampleforth, as Paul has already pointed out. Brian Childs PS (With apologies to PCND) the only cloche to be heard on VPS 1010 is used by Peter Goodman in the central section of the Cook Fanfare !

He went on to make several more recordings for Priory, including one of " Pictures at an Exhibition" at the Tonhalle, Zurich. More recently he recorded the Elgar Sonata and his own transcription of the Enigma Variations on the Temple Church organ which I seem to remember was the Organists' Review Record of the Month when it was reviewed in that journal. And deservedly so in my opinion. BAC

For me I think this encapsulates it all though I would rephrase it to read " Can music be made on this organ" to allow it to apply to someone like myself who is never going to be allowed to play on the celebrated organs enumerated in PCNDs post, nor the one not far from Casterbridge which he did not mention. I would then add the rider that the question "can music be made on this organ" is certainly not the same question as "can music which I personally like or approve of be made on this organ ?". I am sure that the number on this board who confuse the definition of music with personal taste fluctuates between a peak of tiny and a low point of non-existent. Brian Childs

No John I certainly was not thinking of you when I wrote that. I also do not intend to be specific about those I was but the posts I have in mind tend to be directed to an individual's character or integrity rather than his ideas. Nothing you have written of which I am aware could sensibly be construed as falling into that category. To illustrate the distinction I have in mind PCND and I would seem to hold diametrically opposed views on the value of tonal percussion registers in a classical organ design. I quite like them : he appears not to. I am entitled to think his opinion on this issue is silly (even if on many other issues I find myself in complete and total agreement with him), and I do not doubt he holds exactly the same view of mine.The freedom to hold opposing views is what "free speech" is all about. It does not follow that I am entitled on this forum to transfer the description silly from his opinion to the character of the man, still less to do so using even stronger and more condemnatory language. It seemed to me that a Rubicon lay between those two things which it was not appropriate for us to cross here. It was, and remains, my personal view that some have done precisely that and addressed each other in terms which reveal a degree of hostility which cannot be explained by anything posted here. My inference was that some members here were carrying on a quarrel between themselves that had its origins outside the confines of this Board. I would prefer they did not carry it on here, if for no other reason than the practical consideration that the rules that apply to such a debate are as different from those that one might expect to apply on this Board as are those which govern a contest fought under the rules of the Amateur Boxing Association from those applicable to a bar room brawl (ie none). I trust with this explanation you will see that I was not thinking of you at all since nothing that you have written here, certainly nothing referable to any post of mine, could reasonably be interpreted as a personal attack on me, but you do not have to search too far back to find one or two posts that look (or did prior to any subsequent editing) fairly like a personal attack though not directed at me. Whilst I think Yorshire folk are "careful" I would never describe them as tight, and I am so fond of the County that my wife and I are considering moving back there !

I was told when I graduated in 1969 from a University in Yorkshire that I had become an honorary Yorkshireman, although a subsequent speaker suggested such was not possible since the word "honorary" (implying without payment) was not to be found in any locally available dictionary. A vile calumny, doubtless, though I do seem to remember "if tha' does owt for nowt do it for tha' sen" being said more than once in my hearing. I have learned a considerable amount from discussions and posts on this site and am grateful to everyone whose greater knowledge has contributed to the improvement of my own so it would be self-defeating to be "riled" when someone s disagrees with me, or corrects a mistake I have made. That said I do think that in a couple of instances on this site there appear instances of personal animosity being displayed which cannot be explained on the basis of anything publicly posted here, and I would personally prefer it if those with private quarrels kept them private and did not involve the rest of us. Brian

Surely one could draw a distinction between fictional/hypothetical/projected specifications and those of instruments that actually exist, where consultation of the specification could be a valid pursuit in order to 1/ Discover the available resources of an instrument on which one has been invited to play in order to ensure one selects appropriate music. After all, it has not been unknown for a recital programme to have to be changed at short notice when the recitalist actually met the instrument for the first time. 2/Discover the available resources of an instrument which one is proposing to go to hear played by someone else , to discover whether the trip will be worth your while. For example, would you consider it time and money well spent to undertake a round trip of 300 miles to hear an all Bach recital by a player you had never heard of on an unmodified Edwardian octopod. It is quite possible to say yes to this question and still accept that knowledge is usually preferable to ignorance. 3/Discover the available resources of an instrument a recording of which one is contemplating buying in order to form an opinion about whether the instrument is likely to be capable of facilitating a performance which would provide you with pleasure rather than one that would cause the CD containing it to find its way on to e-bay within minutes of the CD leaving the player. All that said I do not see how it is possible to disagree with your conclusion that a list of stop names is no indication of what sound will come from the instrument to which the list relates. Brian Childs

I thought Manuel was from Barcelona and worked in Torquay ? I have read the Norman Book but I was thinking of a couple of LPs I have, one made by a man named after a now defunct marque of British car, and the other by someone who shares his name with a famous designer of a very well known tractor whose picture can be found on our local banknotes. The latter included the Lidon Sonata and the CS Lang Tuba Tune on his offering and the effect was certainly different from what I had previously encountered. You might get away with Portugal but for the unusual way you spell cromorne, however, I shall say no more.