john carter
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Posts posted by john carter
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Thanks for this, guys. I infer from what has been posted that if I complete an NPOR survey on an 1898 Alexander Young, and say that the joinery, level of wear etc. leads me to believe that the central, balanced swell pedal is original, then I'm on reasonably secure ground.
I do think that it's quite interesting to note the way in which some of the big firms of the 19th and early 20th centuries demonstrated quite a measure of conservatism in this matter. The latest Wm Hill organ that I've come across with triggers was the 1912 instrument in the Houldsworth Hall, Manchester (now lost). I suppose that Hill may have resisted the trend towards balanced pedals because the company's characteristic swell box design; triggers being more compatible with horizontal shutters.
I have a suggestion as to why Willis, the great innovator and engineer, persisted in fitting triggers to his organs right into the 1890s. Whilst a balanced pedal is undoubtedly the most effective device for realising the hairpins specified in romantic repertoire, a sforzando – frequently demanded in transcriptions and orchestral reductions - is easier to accomplish with a trigger.
As an aside, pictures of the St George's Hall console taken in the early 20th century show the triggers still in place, though I don't know if this organ retained them until 1931 (I'm sure that others will be able to make an authoritative statement on this).
You haven't mentioned the dreaded infinite speed and gradation pedal, which I first encountered in the mid sixties. I think it is the only device that ever caused me to storm out in a fit of temper when a senior colleague said, at absolutely the wrong moment, "I can't see why you are finding it a problem - it's so simple!" Fortunately I got back to the console just in time for my next cue. I suppose, with the TV remote control being a major part of daily life it would seem logical now - but it was certainly unfamiliar then.
JC
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There is a young man, name of Mander
Who builds organs that couldn’t be grander
I’d say that St. Paul’s
Outdoes Albert Hall’s
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I am reffering -as the name of this thread implies- to the tones of this organ.
Not the music played, and how it is played. Just the sound of the instrument.
Pierre
Oops! Sorry for the misunderstanding. An historic restoration in the City of London perhaps?
JC
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No other comment on that one ? Could be interesting, though....Any idea what organ it is ?
Pierre
Pierre, I don't understand your comment. Are you referring to the pieces for which you gave the links? They are being played by an active member of this forum who can surely give us full information.
JC
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My last post on the subject! I find that if I read aloud, say, the first verse as originally versified and the version in CP the "modern" version has a dreadfully banal rhythm in comparison.
Original, 1919 version:
Be thou my vision, O Lord of my heart,
Naught be all else to me, save that thou art;
Thou my best thought in the day and the night,
Waking or sleeping, thy presence my light.
CP version:
Be thou my vision, O Lord of my heart,
be all else but naught to me, save that thou art;
be thou my best thought in the day and the night,
both waking and sleeping, thy presence my light.
Stephen Barber
Ah! at last I see what you are on about. I had not understood because Rejoice and Sing, which we use in my Church, does have the version of the words that you prefer and accordingly we use the two different versions of Slane depending on whether the hymn is "Be thou my vision" or "Lord of all hopefulness".
JC
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The fourth bar of the hymn tune Lord of the Years (by Michael Baughen), popular on SoP and Morning Worship, contains what I have always thought a quirky and somewhat unnecessary rhythmic element in that the first two notes are quaver - dotted crotchet. The tune itself is strong and the harmony (by David Illif in my hymnal) is imaginative without being off-puttingly adventurous. Does anybody else think this, and that the tune would works equally well were the two beats I referred to simply crotchet/crotchet?
Peter
Hang on a mo! I might only be a part-time amateur hymn player, but has anybody thought to ask the composer or arranger before changing things? When so often in these pages we are encouraged to respect the composer's intentions, why is this different?
JC
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This was pointed out to me today by a colleague. Apparently this gentleman was a publican and organist. Quite a way to be remembered!
JC
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Sorry, John. I wasn't replying to you, actually!
Oops. Sorry!
JC
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It could be because your signal to noise ratio has dropped as it does at night with so many people online. Unplugging your modem from the 'phone socket for a few seconds and then plugging it in again should allow it to resync and sort out the problem.
Sorry, but I don't think you have quite followed what I'm saying! I also had the problem this morning - but only with the Mander Board. Pierre's French language "Organographia", also an Invision Power Board, behaves promptly at all times, as do all other websites. Re-setting my router and changing my IP address will do nothing to increase my connection speed. Indeed it will do the opposite as BT's system optimises the speed of the connection over a period of 72 hours after any interruption. This is most definitely a fault condition. Nevertheless, I'm grateful for you taking the trouble to offer advice.
JC
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This morning at 11.05, it took one minute for the grey background to appear, headline text appeared after four and a half minutes and five more minutes before the front page was fully loaded. Organographia, on the other hand, had downloaded almost before I took my hand from the mouse, as did organrecitals.com and organstops.org, that happen to be in the same favourites folder. My connection speed, when checked is sitting at a pretty healthy 5Mb/s.
JC
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Recently, in the late evening, I have sometimes found the board extremely slow or, in the case yesterday, inaccessible. Is anybody else experiencing this? I have no difficulty with any other websites, so I do not think the problem is local to my machine or ISP. Is there a limit to the maximum number that can view the board simultaneously?
JC
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The software is set to warn those monitoring it should it be triggered by certain words, combinations of words or key phrases.
I wonder if chamade is one of those words!
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The organ of Holy Trinity, Brompton is being offered on eBay with a starting price of £10.00.
See here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=180302545476
NPOR listing here: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N14959
I hadn't realised that re-evangelising the nations and transforming society involved disposing of your heritage.
JC
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The reason why I say it would not be the same is the Positive Jeu de Tierce is because that collection of stops is designed to be more intense, more directional, not so loud, and not at all-enveloping. Here is the same organ with the Positive (as you suggest it might or should be). However, I find that such a sound needs a Fond d'orgue registration that acts as a vast harmonic canvas for this intense solo - the whole made even more intense by the drawing of the Tremblant. I actually am frightened by the beauty of this sound and wonder seriously if it should be posted.
Here endeth the line of Sexquialtera/Jeu de Tierce posts from me. Honest!
Best wishes.
Nigel
Well I'm glad you didn't wonder about posting it for too long, Nigel. Truly exquisite. Please Sir, may we have some more?
JC
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In Graham Barber's recording of the Whitlock sonata at Downside Abbey (Priory), you can hear excellent enclosed reeds of the smooth type right in the beginning. Sounds impressive, if a bit dull when compared to enclosed reeds of more snarly character.
But considering the original function of an English Tuba, enclosing it would have been besides the point, wouldn't it?
Best,
Friedrich
Our fellow contributor Cynic has much more knowledge of the Downside organ than I do, but as I understand it there is an enclosed Tuba on the Solo, but also an unenclosed Tuba on the Bombarde division. It would be interesting if Paul can tell us something about the character of and differences between these two stops.
JC
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It's all a matter of personal taste I suppose, but I have been of the opinion for years that the Mixtures should really come on after the reeds in the 'build-up' - this is not, of course, to say that a Mixture can not be used with the flues chorus and without the reeds.
DW
I'm afraid my taste differs. I think a flue chorus with mixtures is one of the most glorious, noble sounds our instrument can produce.
JC
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I disagree. On my own church instrument, the G.O. chorus is capped by a superb Mixture IV which commences 19-22-26-29. There are few breaks; it does not scream by any standards. It binds and tops the chorus in a way that something an octave lower simply would not do. There are many such mixtures on English organs - and many of these do not 'shriek', 'scream' or sound unpleasant in any other way.
Pcnd, it would be most interesting to know the exact composition of the Wimborne GO mixture, with its break points, if you happen to get a chance to look inside?
JC
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25K for a full time, very skilled job, is rubbish really isn't it? When you can get much more than that for pushing a lever on an underground train to go faster or slower it puts it all into perspective. Of course one industry is highly unionised whilst the other is not. Perhaps we need a more militant outlook for the organist fraternity. Forward, brothers !!!
But not many lives are risked if an organist misses a signal or hits the wrong key - unless you know otherwise?
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I have been interested to read the various postings about Cameron Carpenter. I had not even heard his name till earlier this year and my initial reaction was to dismiss him and his playing as an American gimmick.
A few weeks ago, however, I met him and heard him play in person. I had no hesitation in booking him to play at my church next year. I can confirm too, that on a personal level, I found him to be an utterly charming and unassuming man.
He certainly has the most amazing technique that I have seen in fifty years; but more important than this, his musicianship is equal to any of his colleagues. His feeling for colour is second to none and he seems to have almost a mission to "bring the organ to the people". Of course his style of playing does not appeal to the purists, but I think the Organ World needs someone like him at the moment. Too often organists are content to stay in their ivory towers, playing boring programmes to tiny audiences. One thing about Mr Carpenter, he is not boring!
For me, watching and hearing him play in person was a completely different experience from merely tuning in to YOUtube.
Those who seem to have written him off as just another US show-off, should come along to the Albert Hall on October 21st and hear him in person, before making their final judgement. (Tickets are 25% off, if purchased before Friday...) It takes a lot to persuade me to go to London these days, but I would not miss his UK début-concert for anything.
Geoffrey Morgan
Thank you for posting your opinion. From someone as eminent as yourself, it is pleasing to read such a positive recommendation. It just goes to show that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover!
JC
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I am doing some research at the moment for a thesis.
An article I read in a local newspaper (outside the UK!) refers to a violin maker who ordered wood from Hill and Son for an instrument he was making. I assumed that the article was referring to Hill and Son the organbuilders. Organ builders, after all, are known for stocking large quantites of seasoned wood. Does anyone know of any other Hill and Son companies operating in London?
I guess what would be ideal would be to find out what woods Hill and Son stocked around 1923, and which of these would have been suitable for violin making. Does anyone have access to records which could shed some light on this? I tried BIOS but to be honest, I don't really know what I'm doing. Are the order books of Hill and Son from this period archived anywhere?
Why all this fuss? I'm trying to locate the violin and the type of wood used may help to identify it, in absence of a maker's mark.
There was a W.E. Hill and Sons, a very high class violin maker, at 38 Bond Street in London, who repaired a cello for me in the 1960s, but they are no longer in the premises they then occupied. I'm sorry I have no further information to hand, but will PM you if I find anything in my papers.
JC
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The Dulciana does not belong to the Strings family, but to the Principals.
Pierre
Yes, I know that Pierre, it was meant to be a joke, but was obviously not very amusing. However, the Wanamaker organ does have Dulcianas in its string division and the 4' examples are called Octave Dulciana, not Dulcet.
JC
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Ok, find me more than 1 percent of Dulcets listed on NPOR which aren't at 4' pitch, and I'll eat my words!
Would Sir prefer them Grilled or Meunière?
PS You are spared! The children have decided it isn't such a fun game after all.
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Thank you Nigel for the Wanamaker clip. I wish Debenhams in Stratford-upon-Avon had something similar! Here is the stoplist..
http://www.wanamakerorgan.com/stoplist.html
The string division is especially boggling for the mind with its multiplicity of orchestral violins.
All that and not a Dulcet to be seen! (see nuts and bolts correspondence)
This...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Z8goeFzzQ...feature=related
...of James Lancelot at St. Sulpice (with Daniel Roth assisting and advising - look out at 5.18!), is great!
P
My goodness that was quick, especially on an unfamiliar instrument.
JC
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I remember attending a Messiaen recital on a very similar instrument some years ago - I cannot find words to tell you how light, delicate and colourful it was. It was just amazing how many pages there seemed to be in the score.
JC
PS Sorry Pierre!
Christmas Greetings
in General discussion
Posted
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all and may I join in the thanks to John Mander and Rachel Mawhood for providing a forum that gives great pleasure throughout the year.
JC