JJK

Aarrggh....... where were the Cathedrals Advisory Committee?

I hope the remaining few will be kept. Inconvenient for visiting organists I know, but I suspect they do allow an extra degree of expression for those familiar with them - quite apart from the historic interest. JJK

Not many of those swell mechanisms still in use, I guess (Liverpool was the only one I was aware of). How do you find it? To me it sounds an excellent idea but, not having tried one, I wonder how easy it is to master in practice. JJK

Has it? I know it had a positive section added in the 60s and some minor tweaks when Harrisons restored it in 70s. And the addition of th Trompette Militaire (which I wasn't so impressed with, although that may have been due to where I was sitting). But has the original character of the instrument changed much? (Not doubting you, I just don't know!) I agree that WC is very fine - but for me LC had that bit more grandeur, and is obviously on a bigger scale in a bigger building. JJK

We are indeed lucky - and it was great to hear an unusual programme so well suited to the organ - but I wouldn't want to detract from the rest of the country. I was in Liverpool last weekend and went to a recital by Ian Tracey. Now that organ is in a class of its own, and I believe is not equalled by anything in London. And Ian Tracey was on superb form - player, building and instrument all fitted each other perfectly. JJK

Well I thoroughly enjoyed it - although I wasn't expecting so much tibia, vox and trem! (at least I thought I heard tibias, but it seems there aren't any on that organ!) No idea about the encore. Also, where was the Schmitt toccata? JJK

How about this 4 manual console as an example of no-expense spared! No plasitc in sight! http://www.willis-organs.com/news01.html JJK

Maybe the distinction here is between the two types of Wyvern instruments. Their custom instruments use Phoenix electronics and consoles made in Devon by Renatus. I believe these use Kimber Allen pedal boards, which I guess are standard RCO dimensions. The other, less expensive, instruments are manufactured in Holland - I think the sample data may be to Wyvern specification, but not the hardware. Maybe these instruments are the ones with narrow pedalboards? JJK

My local Church does this every Lent and Advent - but sadly only to Anglican chant. I'd be interested to hear of any more adventurous settings. JJK

I agree that the best are effective musical instruments in one sense - the sense of getting the job done to the satisfaction of player and audience. However, as they ultimately aim to imitate a different instrument (ie real pipes) I think this limits the ability of the digital instrument to evolve and develop as an instrument in its own right. A sampled organ could be made to imitate almost any sound - and it is therefore ultimately dependent on the parallel existence of pipe instruments, developing according to the technical and artistic limitations of that medium. Otherwise the digital instrument would merely copy historic pipe organs. Of course it would now be technically possible for electronic organs to diverge from their "pipe-imitation" roots - and then we would presumably have the invention of many new tone colours, and different tonal structures - and I guess new repertoire may then need to develop to exploit this. (cf synthesizers or Ondes Martinot). This seems rather radical - analogous maybe with MM's mention in another thread of the need for a new theology and replacement of Cranmer with something more modern and relevant. I guess it will eventually happen, but I can't see where the necessary inspiration and creativity would come from at present. I think there are some recent technical developments which significantly improve the ability of digital organs to imitate pipes: 1. Availability of cheap memory - which means that vast amounts of sample data can be stored, and long samples. 2. Ability of some technologies to allow separate tone generation for each "pipe", including each "pipe" in each mixture rank - and also allowing separate tuning of each "pipe" 3. Ability of sampled organs to sound as good (or even better) than synthesized instruments (such as those produced by Copeman Hart and others), but at a much cheaper price (at least for the digital electronics - the console hardware etc will always cost money for good quality and longevity). Also, as always, the use of a large number of audio channels and speakers is essential - and that does not come cheap. And the expertise required in setting up an instrument in the building is not trivial. Finally - the quality of the data is absolutely important. And I believe there have been some high profile digital organs installed where, despite all else being fine, the data has not been up to scratch, and that has led to an artificial sound. JJK

Thanks Paul - good to have a more informed view about the pipe organ. JJK

Well I think that in both cases the actual life of the instrument has been far less than should be expected. In the case of the pipe instrument I suppose the problem was reliability rather than tonal. And an electronic instrument should last rather more than the 7 or so years at Sheffield - but as I mentioned I think the answer lies in the fact that the instrument was never very good tonally (despite the excellent reputation of its maker), rather than any functional problems with the organ. I guess my point is that there are good and bad examples of pipe organs as well as substitutes. I have played some really lousy pipe organs, preservation of which would do no-one any favours. And replacement by a good substitute would not necessarily be a retrograde step. As an example, I know of one pipe instrument which is on its last legs 18 years after a major rebuild. The pipework is undistinguished and doesn't blend, the soundboards need restoring, the magnets are sticking, the solid state transmission system is playing up. It could be restored, but at an expense which is difficult to justify given the likely results and longevity. It seems that there are two reasonable options: - 1. a good quality custom digital instrument. No flashing lights, and a modest 2 manual spec, 25 stops, with the money spent where it counts on the tone generation, audio system and speakers. Probably around £25-30k, and an expected life of up to 15 years. 2. a new pipe instrument of around 12-15 stops - around £200k. Maybe less if a secondhand instrument used as the basis (although this would be difficult due to limited headroom available). Expected life - 100 years. From my viewpoint, option 2 is preferable. It represents an investment for the long term, and would be a more satisfying musical instrument which would also visually enhance a fine, if small, building. However, I also believe that in the short term option 1 could provide a more musical and reliable instrument than the current pipe organ. May it not be the case that there are some digital instruments that have more musical integrity than some pipe organs? Finally, let me also say that I do agree wholeheartedy with Paul about the dangers of what is going on. Many perfectly adequate pipe organs are being replaced by cheap substitutes with little or no musical integrity (and many of these pipe instruments are ending up in Latvia or Poland where they are appreciated!). But I am not convinced that simply taking the "pipes are always best" line is helpful in winning the argument. JJK

Well yes...but there are plenty of pipe organs which have been re-innarded (revoicing, rebalancing, new pipes etc). In fact I seem to remember that the original substitute at Sheffield replaced a none-too-old pipe organ! And I would also contend that the original substitute sounded a bit iffy from the outset (an opinion maybe unfairly based on one choral evensong I heard) - so I'm not sure it's a case of the sound palling over time. Maybe it was always a poor substitute? I still feel I would rather play a good substitute than a poor pipe instrument, with both some way behind a first-rate pipe instrument. I have plenty of experience with a poor pipe instrument, but not of a substitute (at least not in Church) - so I'm afraid I can't really add to your stats! JJK

Was anyone else at the opening recital last Saturday? I thought Thomas Trotter was excellent, and the instrument sounded wonderful - especially those Gt and Ped reeds which were wisely reserved for the Widor 5 first mvmt. The latter was a tour de force, considering the lack of registration aids (apart from the two assistants!) JJK

Putting the music on one side for a moment, for me the BCP evening prayer service is still loaded with meaning and relevance for today. It gives a dramatic unfolding of the Christian message - starting with the Old Testment stories of Gods promises to his chosen people and the use of ancient Jewish songs. Then the incarnation and the fulfilment of these promises, and the broadening out into Christianity, and the message for the gentiles. Then all this brought together in the creed. One's theological understanding of all this, as far as I can see, is not explicit in the words or form of service. The language may be old fashioned, but I cannot really see how the enlightenment or scientific knowledge has much bearing on the meaning or relevance of Cranmer's form of service. And there is plenty of scope for relevant, modern discourse in the sermon and prayers. At the Church I generally attend for evensong (but not play at) the music is the worst part - Psalms and Canticles sung to chants which nobody knows, and no pointing provided. It's a mess, and I would rather it was said. But still, I would not want to be without evensong at least weekly. I've noticed that some Cathedrals provide on their service sheets a description of the various aspects of and background to the evensong service - this seems excellent to me, and maybe might help people to rediscover the meaning and relevance rather than seeing it as a tired old routine? Back to music, what does one do in a parish church comitted to evensong but with a dwindled choir, not able to provide sufficient lead in the singing of Anglican chant? Find alternative ways of singing psalms (if so, what)? Or say the service, apart from hymns? Or find ways of invigorating the choir, if possible. On a positive note, we have recently seen numbers increase at evensong, despite the above problems. And not all elderly people either! JJK

I understand that the Heritage Lottery fund have provided grants for several organ restorations - but exclusively for instruments of historical significance. From what I've heard, ajt's instrument might be on this category? This is a subject close to my heart. Our current instrument is on its last legs, but unfortunately has never ranked above second rate, so grants are unlikely. We're looking at a new instrument (or maybe rebuilt secondhand - but this is difficult due to limited headroom). I doubt we'll get away with less than £250k - and I'm of the opinion that a rich benefactor is the only way forward. Anyone know any? JJK

I was always led to believe it should be "sprit" for Byrd, Morley and Tomkins, but "spi-rit" for Smith. Something to do with Smith being a northerner IIRC! JJK

Yes - the shop is called Freed I think. I bought some dance shoes from them a few years back, for organ playing, and they were very good. Much better than any previous shoes I'd used. However, the heels were a bit flat - ideally you'd get someone to build them up a bit. However, I have since changed to Organmaster; they are even better - and the heels seem a much better size. JJK

I've often wondered, what exactly does one do with a 2ft pedal reed? JJK

This is available (or at least was) on CD - DECCA425 616-2. It is a boxed set with La Transfiguration as well as Preston's Nativite. Not sure if it is still current though. JJK

I think at today's prices, a top-quality pipe organ for £100,000 would have no more than 6 or 7 stops (based on discussions I'm having regarding a possible new 15-stop instrument). Second-hand could of course be cheaper, and may be fine if it fits the building - but I would have thought removal and restoration costs are still likely to mean no more than 12 or so stops for that money. I suspect that a good, custom-made electronics can now give second-tier pipe instruments a run for their money - and may even sound considerably better. Which is not to say that top-quality pipe instruments, designed to last 100 years, are not a preferable option where space permits, and the powers that be are prepared to make such an investment. JJK

Has anyone noticed that the tune to "Be still for the presence of the Lord" bears an uncanny resemblence to the theme music from a well-known TV series. Since this was pointed out to me, whenever I accompany it there is an enormous temptation, after the second line of music, to launch into the "Blackadder". So far I've resisted..... JJK

Off the top of my head and in no particular order.... Love Divine - Blaenwern (not the effete Stainer tune) Come Down O Love Divine - Down Ampney Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken - Abbots Leigh O Praise Ye the Lord: Laudate Dominum Christ is Made the Sure Foundation - Westminster Abbey Let All the World - Luckington Lo He Comes with Clouds Descending - Helmsley Drop drop slow tears - Gibbons Songxxx Allelulia, sing to Jesus - Hyfrydol Lord, enthroned in heavenly spendour - St Helen King of glory, king of peace - Gwalchmai Come thou long expected Jesus - Cross of Jesus (Stainer did write some good tunes!) Thine be the glory - Maccabaeus Light's abode, celestial salem - Regent Square Guide me O thou great redeemer - Cwm Rhondda O Gladsome Light, O Grace - Nunc Dimittis Wake, O wake - Wachet Auf A safe stronghold - Ein fest burg O sacred head - Passion Chorale Before the ending of the day - Te Lucis (plainsong) JJK