innate

But Debussy's great harmonic influence, particularly at the start, was Wagner, who was hugely influential for Franck and Chausson too. The other key figure in French C20 harmony was Satie, who, I think, was also influenced by Wagner at some point. Of course, by the time Debussy wrote the witty parody of the Tristan progression in Gollywog's cakewalk he'd achieved a certain independence.

There's Dave Brubeck's Kathy's Waltz, where the theme isn't heard until the end; you get all the variations first. This is the internet, after all. It was invented for tangents.

Sorry, I did misunderstand you. I remember reading a quote from either our host, John Pike Mander, or his father that trying to sing a hymn at the back of a full nave before the major work by Manders was next to impossible.

On special occasions, perhaps 2 or 3 times a year, St Paul's Cathedral book the City of London Sinfonia to accompany the choir in its Sunday morning eucharist. I haven't heard that there are any particular problems of ensemble above or beyond what happens normally with the organ.

Confession time: about 25 years ago I was asked by a friend from university to play the organ for her wedding. She was a musician and had chosen the music with great care. Another friend sang the tenor solo from Rejoice In The Lamb. She asked me to play the Gm Fantasia & Fugue and I agreed, despite never having studied them. However, as the date loomed nearer I realised that, whilst I could play the Fantasia pretty well, I was not going to have the necessary time to prepare the fugue. Rather than cop out altogether I remembered there was another, solitary, Bach organ fugue in Gm which I had learned before; it begins, unusually for a fugue, with a full chord. Even though the detached console was at the front of the chapel I didn't dare look at the bride's face as I started the unexpected fugue. I'd told myself at the time and ever since, that Bach hadn't specified which pieces "went" together but had never believed it until this thread. Thanks, guys, my heart is lighter now.

I'd been ignoring this thread thinking it was all about nave organs... I haven't played for many weddings recently but there's one coming up. I suspect the couple want to play a CD of a popular song from the 1960s during the signing of the registers. Whilst I am prepared to fight my own corner with regard to the video recording of my performance who is responsible for protecting the rights of the, say, Scarabs in this situation? I presume the church has a licence in place for the playing of the track.

The number significance in Bach's religious music (and of course I include CÜ III in that) is an area that fascinates me; I'm looking forward to my retirement so I can have the time to explore it. My guess is that it was mostly conscious, in the same way that a jazz player putting in quotes from other tunes is conscious. I seem to remember that the number of notes in the descending scales in the continuo part in the "veil of the temple" recitative in the St Matthew Passion reference the Psalms that mention earthquakes!

There might be something in that, but I've no evidence either way ie I don't know of anyone who started to learn the organ aged over 30 who either succeeded or failed to achieve an independent pedal technique. People take up extraordinary challenges much later that 30 and succeed though. I wish I'd worked harder in my teens, mind you. Someone should have told me I should be doing 2 hours practice a day. Then I might have made something of myself

Whatever the rights and wrongs of your case, Cynic (and I'm sure that there is huge support for the organist in general on this discussion board) it is important to remember that we are essentially guests of John Mander and his Company here. As he has pointed out, the Company carry a legal responsibility for what is published here and it is in our own interests, as well as those of our host, to refrain from anything that could be construed as defamation. I think it is always better to err on the side of caution. If you feel that your story should be published then by all means go ahead and make your own website detailing the case in such a way that you will be obvious as the sole publisher. This forum is too valuable a resource to risk on the, however genuine, vented spleen of its members.

The right speed?

Thank you for reminding me of this. I'd read it some years ago; it is so beautifully written it brought tears to my eyes. I was particularly proud, as a son of Derbyshire, to see how many of that county's organs are mentioned.

I may be wrong, but I think the original phone phreaks were street kids in New York City who by chance found they could make free international phone calls from public phone boxes by whistling specific pitches down the phone. They were able to remember which pitch had which effect without any musical training. On a slightly different tack I caught part of a programme on the BBC World Service radio yesterday where they were discussing the connection between 2 specific genes and tonal or non-tonal languages. In spoken English pitch is used for expression but in Mandarin pitch is used to define the meaning of a set of phonemes. Apologies for any linguistic infelicities.

"The romantic engagement with the past" might be equally or to some extent involved in the respect held by some for Hope-Jones or John Compton too. In other words, a love of science, engineering and progress might not be completely "rational".

Absolutely. Particularly if she seems to be so aware of her web presence.

You write as though there was something worthwhile about the idea of the modular organ. But if it weren't for the "developments" of particularly H-J and JC there wouldn't have been such a fertile ground for the ideas of organ-reform to be planted. If British organ builders had carried on building Hills and Bevingtons and Lewises and Father Willises we have have had organs with integrity that the generation above me would have been satisfied with in the 1950s and 60s. The rot set in with the engineers. IMHO.

Bear-baiting used to be considered a fine day out. I played the H-J in St Paul, Buton-in-Trent a few times 30 years ago. It was absolutely horrible, in my opinion. And not at all for anything classical outside 1900-1940. I'd consider H-J and JC about as useful for classical organ repertoire. I've played the Comptons in Derby Cathedral, Bradfield College, St Luke's Chelsea, All Saints Poplar and, I think it is, St Olave's Hart Street in the City of London. Yes one admired the skill of the engineering and the magnificent glare of the stopheads, particularly at Derby. The Bombarde section was very loud indeed. But after a few earth-moving climaxes I felt completely restricted as to the repertoire I could play with any integrity. Whereas, as has been mentioned by others, even you I think, there are some instruments which are based on a narrow geographic area and historical period that positively encourage me to experiment with all sorts of good music. What all the JC organs I played had in common was a fine acoustic. I would have said comparing an H-J Diaphone with a Trost Pedal bass was like comparing Segovia to Johnny Rotten (or the other war around). And how come moulded carbon-fibre violins aren't flying off the shelves? Interestingly carbon-fibre bows are gaining a certain amount of kudos amongst professionals these days, particularly in "hard-hat" areas such as arena concerts and theatres. Many years ago I knew the violin and bow maker Laurence Cocker who made bows out of six pieces of split bamboo cane; these Cocker bows became quite popular in some orchestras.

Was it this one?

You remind me of that oft-circulated "Engineer's report on attending a Symphony orchestra concert": For long sections of the concert the two oboes had nothing to do. All sixteen first violinists were playing identical notes. In my opinion, the worst things that happened to the pipe organ in Britain were Hope-Jones and John Compton as they put science/engineering before art. Even though an organ contains many mechanical parts its raison d'être is musicmaking, as for other musical instruments. If the great Cremonese violin-makers were still working today would you deny their traditional craft methods on the grounds that they don't make engineering sense in the C21? Violinists today have a choice of fantastic, very expensive old instruments, more affordable modern ones made in a very similar fashion to the old ones and modern "engineered" things like this. Violinists with artistic integrity wouldn't like to be seen playing Brahms, Beethoven, Sibelius or Britten on the engineered version.

I have a vague memory of reading about a Victorian organ builder who marketed a small one-manual organ to churches on the basis that it had an octave coupler AND an extra octave of pipes at the top. I can't remember the actual sales pitch but it was a big claim!

I suspect organ-builders can be divided into two distinct groups: those that use half-draw stops and those that don't. The builders that favour them seem to use them in most of their organs. But no, I've never actually encountered one in the flesh. Are they always additive ie is the half-draw always fewer ranks than the full draw? Or could, say, the 17th rank in a mixture be present on the half draw but not in the full draw? Half-draws are also used for undulating ranks in small organs, I think. A full draw will draw a diapason and the half-draw reduces the wind so it can be used with another 8' as an undulant. I don't know how successful this is.

There was some discussion along these lines on the PIPORG-L list some while back. You could try googling or ploughing through their archives which I think are available on http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html

Always good to question the traditional way and there are a few, mainly continental, organ builders who seem very willing to think "outside the box" in terms of case and console design. As regards the control of the stops and pipes, the late C19 and early C20 saw many revolutionary actions, most of which have gradually fallen out of favour compared to standard slider chests. There are continual improvements in the layout of pipes on the chest helped, often, by CAD. "New" materials have frequently been tried but it seems that the traditional materials seem to win over longer periods of time. Now, about your Jumbo Jet - how many pipe organs get the sort of maintenance schedule that a commercial or military plane can expect?

My old teacher, the late CD Atkinson, was similarly short and also had the bench at an angle! I'd be more scared coming down, I think. But on a 4- or more-manual organ most of us will be staring upwards, even the 6' 3" ones. I wonder if anyone ever gave up the organ on account of their height.

We could all respond "no". Michael

It certainly looks lovely on paper (or rather, on-line). Maybe I'd have chosen something instead of the Oboe - a Sesquialtera, Cornet III, Trumpet, perhaps. And are the manuals really black naturals and grey sharps?