Phil T
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Posts posted by Phil T
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Many evangelicals quote the verses they like and completely ignore the others.
Many a fine anthem was written that way.
I’ve always thought that as Christians, we were followers of Christ. The New Testaments are his life and teachings and so they are the basis of Christianity? There are many contradictions between the Old and New Testaments, but it is the teachings of the New that should guide us through life.
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The real art is in service planning to maintain, as far as possible, an overall balance whilst also supporting the theme and aims of the particular act of worship - and that holds good whatever tradition (or mix of traditions) are involved.
Every Blessing
Tony
I couldn’t have put it any better myself. I wish all churches/priests thought the same way as you, but then we wouldn’t have anything to moan about, would we?
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I am new to this as well, so please don't be too brutal.
I have been an organist for over 25 years and am a lover of the traditional instrument, but I am also a computer engineer and have not only played several digital organs but attempted to build one or two in my lifetime.
I think that the answer lies in the base technology; granted we can reproduce the sound of an organ in its steady state throug digital sampling, the proof of this is just to play a CD! Harry Nyquist was after all, correct.
There is also no doubt that the cost of the digital organ will continue to decline, as technology gets faster and cheaper. There is, I think, at least one piece of the puzzle missing: the pipe is dynamic, not static. Organ builders over the years have learned that by using metallurgy, wind pressure, pipe topology and construction they can not only vary the steady state and harmonic composition of a pipe, but also change the way in which it reaches that state, ie the 'chiff' in a soft flute or the gradual transition from wind to sound as a 32' pipe starts to resonate.
These nuances are difficult, if not impossible, to reproduce with sampling. Until such time as we can derive an accurate mathematical model of the acoustics of a pipe and emulate it in real time, then a true digital facsimile of a pipe will not be possible. I have been working on this problem for some time, if there is anyone out there that would like to help, please join in.
Cheers.
I’m sure a mathematical model of a pipe is possible. In Formula One they model the cars aerodynamics very accurately. How much memory this takes I don’t know. Nyquist is just double the max sampled frequency plus a safety factor. On a cd, they take the max frequency as 20K Hz, double it, and add a bit for safe measure. This gives you 44.1k (or is it 44.2K?).
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There's a lot of common sense here.
The music at a wedding is not governed by, for example, the same constraints of season that one would have at a liturgical service such as a communion or evensong so to worry about the appropriateness of Elgar, Mozart, Bach /Gounod, Franck or even Schubert's classics is probably getting a bit too serious about it all.
At the point where anthems are sung, surely its all about rejoicing at being at a marriage service - this music therefore is what the bride and groom like and have chosen for their guests to enjoy. Think back to Royal weddings ...
You hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day it's the bribe and grooms choice. You can only offer them advice and guidance. You know the limitations of the choir and can steer them in the right direction, but ultimately they choose.
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Only one to add to the above would be Jesu, joy, which you can get away with in unison quite happily.
Don’t make them sing “Jesu, joy of mans despairing.” We kicked that one to death when I was a boy treble and I still can’t stand it nearly 30 years later.
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I think the thing that annoys so much is that those who want to “jazz up” church music turn just once or twice a month. You never see them at Ash Wednesday, Maundy Thursday, Ascension Day (to name but a few), yet we are left doing their style of music, which often makes “lite” of these occasions. Good modern music has its place, but why can’t they leave other services alone? As has been mentioned before, we often bend backwards to accommodate them but that seems to rarely be reciprocated.
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Hi
You may not personally like Kendrick et al style of music - that's fine - but I challenge you to quote say half a dozen examples of Kendrick songs with theologically unsound lyrics.
And just because something is "evangelical" doesn't mean it's claptrap. And why not accept new things - God is a God of creativity - and if the church hadn't changed, we would be worshipping in Aramaic (the language of the first apostles) and using music in Ancient Greek/Roman style.
Every Blessing
Tony
I agree with what you’re saying, but an awful lot of modern (style of) music is weak to say the least. Good writing can enhance words; it can convey the meaning of the words through understanding and passion. There are some modern hymns that achieve this, and these will be around for a long time. At the other end of the spectrum, a lot of modern hymns are just plain rubbish.
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I think it lacks a certain dignity and some might say respect for God.
I only caught about 20 min of it as I was driving home. I enjoyed the music but didn’t think it fitted well into the service. It just didn’t do it for me. I didn’t feel that an act of worship had taken place, only that I’d listened to a jazz concert. I must try and listen to it all on the internet (if my 6 month daughter and wife will let me).
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At St Andrew's, Plymouth, the organ is divided on either side of the rather wide church - the Great and Swell on the north side, Choir and Solo on the south; I'm not sure whether the Pedal is divided or all on the south side. The whole gels well together in ensemble, but when the two sides are used antiphonally the stereo effect is clearly audible most of the way down the church.
I’d forgotten all about this organ. I went to a concert (recital) there in the early nineties just after it was rebuilt. Peter Hurford played, it was mainly Bach as I recall. They placed the console in the middle of the aisle so all could see him as he played.
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"The Oxford Blues Service: A complete Jazz setting of Anglican Evensong according to the Book of Common Prayer, composed by Roderick Williams and sung by Schola Cantorum of Oxford, accompanied by a jazz trio and organ."
Did anyone listen to this Service and if so, what did you think?
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Isn’t the reason for Guildford having a separate Choir (organ) because the building was designed without a proper chamber for an organ? It was placed in the only space large enough to house an instrument. This lead to problems accompanying the choir and so a choir division was placed in the quire to ease the problem.
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So is this specification in keeping with the size of the church and the type of music sung there - or does it have two or three 32p stops, several clavier divisions and a battery of en chamade transistors - sorry, electric trumpets?
It’s very much in keeping with the size of the building and the music done. The church never had a good size chamber and there is only so much you can (or should) shoe horn in to a small space.
Interestingly, St Mary’s in Ewell have a fine 3 manual Willis (only two or three stops smaller than Truro) that is far too big for the building. It sounds superb but it really is too big.
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The Makin at Christchurch Priory required regular work throughout its life - if the church had been paying, the cost would have been comparable to that of maintaining a fine pipe organ. In the event, part of the original installation deal which Geoffrey Tristram negotiated included a permanent free maintenance clause....
At my mother in laws church, their electronic has performed for over ten years without missing a note. It stays in tune no matter how hot or cold the church gets. It is far larger in terms of specification than the old organ chamber could ever allow a pipe organ to be. I know it’s a shame to see a pipe organ go from a church, but I can also see the attraction of an electronic.
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There are so many really fine redundant organs being broken up or put into storage, there's no sensible excuse.
And yet many Parish churches get rid of pipe organs in favour electronic. They seem to be taken by the fact that once installed, there is little servicing (tuning etc) required so little money outlay for many years.
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You might do well to sprinkle some iron filings into the volume control and work 'em in good and well. If all goes according to plan there'll be a horrible crackling sound from the speakers and someone will rush to unplug it and declare it unfit for use.
Nice thought but the potentiometers used for volume control are nearly always sealed units these days. As mentioned by other people on this board, I don’t think destroying the clavinova will cure your problem. The music group will not go away overnight, is there anyway you can work with them rather than against?
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From my limited experience of music groups/happy clappy music, I’ve noticed that the people who push it forward are middle-aged women of limited musical ability. This is just an observation and not meant to be sexist or ageist in any way.
Unless you’ve got a really strong tie to that particular church, then I’d be inclined to leave them to it and find another church who appreciate what you offer.
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Try a thin sliver of tape wrapped around the live or neutral pin (of the plug). If you cut it just right, you can’t see the tape but it stops anything working. Few people every suspect the lead, the fuse may be, but not the lead. I tried it once on a TV in a shared room when I was on nightshift. A room of electricians and not one of them guessed.
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Go home and await frantic telephone call from clergy/wardens/cleaners/police.
Practice your measured response, "Oh my God! That's awful!"
MM
I was trying to avoid anything like that.
It depends why you want it fused?
Some glue carelessly spilt on the keyboard would be a safer alternative. Salt water never properly dries out, the list is endless.
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Just answered the "who wrote the words" question by looking properly at the link
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A congregant (?) remembers it from his boyhood and would like a a copy of the tune he knew for his personal use. He heard it on a recording in the 1920/30's
Anything more specific than that? Who sang it, who recorded it, who wrote the words etc?
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Can anyone suggest where I might find the tune for the following please? request received from a parishioner...
Find out what the meter of the hymn is (no idea how to do it if it’s not printed with it) and find a tune with an identical meter. This is probably little help, but you never know. I don’t find the words overly inspiring, but we don’t all like the same stuff.
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Let's hope the bulldog idea's more effective than a good dose of holy water down the back. This thing's indestructable, no MDF soundboards here, it even survived a direct lighning strike to the church when it was hit plugged in, some years ago. Paper clip bent round the end of + - mains plug (like cassette recorder lead) worked last time to fuse it, when touched on the contacts. This time it doesn't work
I'm not sure what you want to achieve? The fuse in the plug is deigned to protect the machine and it’s user. The fuse should blow (if you short out the power lead) leaving the electronics intact.
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A church in Winchester brought in an electronic substitute organ to replace the ailing - and not particularly fine - pipe organ.
After a few years, the electronic organ was removed and the pipe organ still remains in use, struggling on with a nearly shot action and wind system.
It seems a shame that the money spent on the little used electronic wasn’t used to better effect by bringing the pipe organ up to a better (in terms of action, wind supply) standard.
Best Ways To Fuse A Clavinova?
in The Organ
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They're not all bad. "In God alone" is another which I quite like.