Phil T
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Posts posted by Phil T
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OMG, this is just like straight out of Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith, with John playing the role of Supreme Chancellor Palpatine trying to turn Anakin Skywalker (Adrian) to the dark side. John makes it all sound oh so reasonable and common sensical. Aaaarrrrrggghhhhh!!!!
It’s easy to say, but the head should make this decision, not the heart.
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A lot depends on how the nave organ is to be used. If it’s never going to be played with the quire organ then what it sounds like (in relation to the Willis) is of little relevance and manly comes down to personal preference.
As has already been mentioned, no matter what course of action is taken, someone will think it’s wrong.
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For serious recording these days I use a laptop, recording to the hard drive and then sorting out and editing as needed, the MD is only used where I need a rough and ready recording, e.g. to pass on to someone who can't make a concert.
As a medium that, like mp3, removes part of the audio signal, MD is never going to be as good as uncompressed digital recording (or even analogue on very good machines).
Every Blessing
Tony
That must take up a serious amount of memory? What ADC do you use and at what sampling rate?
In theory a good analogue machine running at a high enough speed will record more “data” than any digital system.
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The organ is there to help lead the worship and accompany the choir. The question should be (within money constraints): What gives the greatest flexibility in accompanying the choir and congregation?
To my mind, unless you can reinstate the organ chamber as an organ chamber (which sounds unlikely), the decision has been made for you.
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When I was much younger I used to go (was taken) to “Hooked on Classics” concerts. At the time I thought they were great and I thoroughly enjoyed them. I wouldn’t go one now though. There was much debate at the time about the music being trivialised etc etc. What I thought at the time was that it introduced music to an audience who would never have ordinarily heard it. This I don’t think is a bad thing.
I’d never heard of Virgil Fox before reading this thread. You may not like what he did or the way that he did it, but if he in any way inspired others to listen to or learn to play the organ, then it can only be a good thing?
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quite, and sorry to bang the drum for that little Sony 5 quid job, but I have absolutely no concerns whatsoever about its response.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/coramdc/index_f...ton%20mag,9.mp3 for example - nowt wrong with the quality of that, bearing in mind it was way up high above the choir.
And why not bang the drum for the Sony? If it does all you want/need, then why spend any more? Sadly, for my bank balance at least, I’m into Hi-Fi. The sky, or more importantly the size of you bank account, is the limit. Sounds good though.
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I've also been using Sony minidisc - the latest format (Hi-MD, I think) allows well over an hour on a 1G disc (costing 45p) with full linear coding - giving CD quality. I use a £60 sony microphone - which is OK, but does lack bass response for organ music.
This is only an amateur set-up, and I'm still experimenting, but I used it to record a choral concert recently (with the permission of the performers), and was staggered at the good results. I'm sure a better microphone would improve it further.
JJK
As you say, a better microphone would improve things, but just like Hi-Fi, it’s the law diminishing returns. To get a microphone that is twice as good as your Sony, you’ll spend considerably more than £120. Then it comes down to, what do you want the recording for, can you justify the expense etc? If (like Hi-Fi) you’re bitten by the bug you’ll always be saving for the next upgrade and have a very empty wallet.
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The biggest problem we have here is not the subject of the debate, which is interesting, but the way in which it is being conducted. Tasteless, personal and unpleasant comments cannot be the way to go, and one hopes they will be withdrawn. It also seems unfair to our hosts at Manders.
One of the great things about this board is that we have a good deal of informed and intelligent comment - from all sorts of people, including cathedral organists, recitalists, village organists, non-players, professionals and amateurs alike. For the most part the debate is friendly even where there are fundamental disagreements. However, it now seems that due to the unpleasant and intemperate nature of some posts, we have lost a contributor whose comments I have greatly appreciated - for the quality of his postings, and not because he is well-known as a cathedral organist and recitalist, and not because I agree with all he says.
JJK
Well said. I for one will be sad if sjf stops reading and posting on this board. I value ALL opinions even if I don't agree with them.
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Well, this may be true in your area. However, it is not indicative of the country as a whole. There are many (and I do mean many) churches of different sizes within a fifty-mile radius of my own town where the music is vital and of a good standard - and this includes the organ playing.
I would agree that we need to do all that we can to encourage people (not just young people) to play the organ and to get involved, if at all possible, with their local church.
However, I do not believe for a moment that it has to be done at the expense of good taste or by resorting to cheap tricks.
In any case, it is easy to sit there thinking negative thoughts - or looking at a half-empty glass, instead of a half-full one. As a more constructive thought, why not contribute some positive ideas, Lee. Start an organ course or produce some leaflets and obtain permission to go into local schools and talk with children and young people. Then meet with different groups in society as a whole. Talk to friends, neighbours, organisations such as Conservative clubs, Rotary, British Legion - become an evangelist for the organ. Do something positive, instead of bemoaning the fatalism of life!
Before you ask, I am doing something and have been doing so for at least twenty years. No, I am not famous - not even remotely so - neither I am a cathedral organist. However, to the best of my ability, I am trying, every day, to communicate my love of the organ - and music, in general - to anyone who will listen, be they seven or seventy, I care not.
It is an exciting world out here, Lee!
Half full or half empty, it all depends where you start.
The last two towns I’ve lived in have had a shortage of organists and singers who are prepared to commit to two services a Sunday, week in week out. You must be lucky to have so many churches with quality music.
Where is it you live? I must move there in a few years time when I’m due to leave Scotland.
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Ah yes, very nice but at a shade over £4000 I don’t suppose Santa will be bringing me one even if I was a very, very good boy.
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I have usd PZMs a couple of times but personally I found them unsatisfactory, since they appeared to accentuate bass frequencies considerably, thus altering the sound of the instrument.
The PZM is ideal for recordings where an audience is present as they have very good rear and side rejection characteristics but don’t have a totally flat frequency response. Like many things in life (sadly), the more you spend, the better the product. Priory use (if my memory serves me right) the Calrec Soundfield microphone. You can’t buy them new, but second hand they’re worth hundreds.
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Personally I think its a shame that the stalwart parish settings I grew up with, such as Darke in F, Sumsion in F, Ireland in C, have all but disappeared, although in the overall canon of mass settings they can't rank as great music.
Sadly cathedrals don’t do these and many churches won’t do them as it excludes those who can’t sing.
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Marvellous , it'll be divine. Were they still doing gathering chords then?
I’ve no doubt that it will be superbly sung with fantastic diction and lovely vowel sounds. I just hope the recording quality does them justice.
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I think you can still get the cheaper Tandy PZM's from ebay for not a huge amount. The more expensive Crown ones still fetch £200 or so.
I'd heard that a good arrangement for them was to have a /\ formation (except less of an accute angle) on wood/mdf sheets, with the point of the /\ facing the sound source...
Any ideas?
Like most things, there are no hard and fast rules, only guides. It all depends what sounds good to you and how you’re going to use the recording.
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Can do, I think the PMZs are discontinued, but they do crop on ebay and are worth seeking out. They are wierd as well, they record everything above like a dome, so have ideally to go below what is being recorded or face directly. I also recorded my choristers and had them at head height, so the organ ( obviously higher) came out too loud, when in fact it was very soft .
Best,
R
All microphones have a polar pattern.
This explains it better than I could
This is the reason why careful microphone placement is essential. Priory and Lammas tend to get it right and preserve the correct balance between organ and choir and manage to retain the natural acoustic of the building.
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For this Wednesday (25th October) the Choral Evensong on Radio 3 at 4pm is billed as an archive performance from the 1950s from Kings.
I have a cd of a nine lessons and carols from the same era. It’s lovely to hear the choir from that time but the sound quality is very, very poor. I hope the BBC recording is of better quality else I’ll not get much further than “O Lord open thou our lips”.
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This obviously, very nice indeed ....
The limitation of this is the in built microphone and how much memory you have (assuming no sound compression). I personally wouldn’t make a recording without permission of the performer(s). A good stereo recording would need a separate mic/stand etc, yet more cost.
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Old ground maybe. But lists are no good! Just one, only one, which really makes you sit up and think - blimey!
Case: http://www.university-church.ox.ac.uk/chur...ges/organ02.jpg
sounds: (ignore all notes - lots of sight reading going on)
Flutes - 8 on Gt, 4 on Pos down oct, ped 16 & 8
Principals - 8 on Gt, 4 on Pos down oct, ped 8 - switch it off when you get to a 3rd of the way through - never learnt this properly
Mutations - various options of Pos mutations
Dulcian - with Gt Cornet - wonderful stop
Liked the sound of this organ, particularly the dulcian. Would need to hear it in the flesh (or at least a well recorded cd, e.g. Priory) before passing final judgement.
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St Paul's (?) Newcastle Under Lyme has a Tibia Liquida stop that activates a drinks drawer.
My stepson is not an organist, but has a method of obtaining a drink at home that seems to work - it consists of yelling to his wife "Oi, woman, beer, NOW!"
I can’t believe that
1. He’s still married.
2. She actually gets him a drink.
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It all depends on what times it’s on, if I’m looking after my daughter, if I go to (sing) evensong and what style of music they look at.
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The final is a superb piece. According to various sources, there is only one mistake in it, too.
A truly fantastic piece, can’t say I’ve ever heard it for a wedding though.
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Only one of the best programs on TV, shame there are so many repeats.
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Talking of which --- horrendous Songs of Praise last night!!!
I didn’t watch it. As soon as I saw the program synopsis I decided to watch something else instead. Hurray for the Simpson’s.
Digital Recording
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Surely analogue systems record at an infinite sampling rate where as digital records at a finite sampling rate? Infinite sampling must equate to more “data” than finite? I’ll say no more because as you say, this isn’t the place to discuss this subject at depth.