Phil T
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Posts posted by Phil T
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We should probably cease this discussion forthwith - apart from the fact that we have rather lost the plot of the thread, I fear that 'Phil T' will lose the will to live, should we continue....
You Sir are a Scholar and a Gentleman. I feel the life force returning and I thank you from the bottom of my uneducated heart.
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Tenbury from 1970 was quite interesting tonight - quite dated in some ways - what's the general opinion?
AJJ
I’m just listening to it using the “Listen Again” facility and so far I’m enjoying it. It sounds as though it’s either closely mic’d or there’s very little acoustic in the building.
It wasn’t the most exciting rendition of the Ireland that I ever heard but over all I enjoyed the recording.
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If I wanted an English lesson then I’d contact my old English teacher who was, incidentally, Humphrey Clucas. At the time (he was at Winchester) I had no idea what he did outside school.
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Most of the last page.........
AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH
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Well, that raised a couple of titters, at any rate....
You'd get more than a couple for £68
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I do not work for the BBC nor do I know anyone who does, but as a career Civil Servant and therefore trained to be disingenuous, I think I detect an obvious motive behind the move to Sunday afternoon Broadcasts of Choral Evensong.
There are many postings which quite rightly expalin the problems of setting up equipment in a Cathedral on a sunday in amongst the Cathedrals other activities. Add to this the premuim pay the BBC will need to pay its engineers to work on a ?Sunday and it seems clear to me that the objective here is to continue to RECORD the services mid-week (any ad hoc WEEK-day to suit where in the country they can find a suitable choir and even better if an outside broadcast team are nearby), and "tidy-up" the performance with whatever extra recorded patches may be deemed necessary, then simply TRANSMIT the event on Sunday afternoon.
Live often means recorded live i.e. no retakes, rather than broadcast live. I suspect that much of what you’re saying is correct.
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I listened to last week's broadcast from Liverpool through the television on skybox. Not the best sound quality at best of times - but did anyone else who listened think the sound quality of the broadcast was poor even allowing for Liverpool's acoustic?
It may be unfair to judge on a less-than-adequate hearing, but was the trebles' tone a bit rough in the lower registers?
I see there's another "archive" today from Tenbury, 1970 I think. No DOM or orgaganist listed in RT - who was there then?
Perhaps there will be more of these in future, further cuttting the live broadcasts....?
Lucian Nethsingha according to This web site.
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I suspect that freeview offers generally better sound that DAB, where I understand that varying degress of compression may be applied. Analogue FM still seems the best, where there is a decent signal strength.
JJK
I was under the impression (probably incorrectly) that the amount of compression on DAB varied from channel to channel and even from program to program. This varies as the bandwidth/dynamic range of the music varies. The compression on R1 is and can be less than R3.
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I would have thought that the factor most likely to affect the quality of broadcasts on Feeview is the relatively low quality of the TV speakers.
I’ve feed the output of a Skybox (that had a phono o/p) straight into my HiFi and found the quality to be reasonable. I haven’t tried the same with a free view box so can’t comment on the quality.
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So it seems clear that very few people have difficulty in recording material they want to listen to at a later date.
So, bearing in mind Radio 4, BBC and ITV are replete with godslot on a Sunday, and all the previously mentioned disadvantages of moving the broadcasts -
WHY????
This is only a guess, but here goes.
Most people in my office won’t listen to (or watch for that matter) anything to do with Religion. Even those who like “classical” music won’t listen to anything mentioning God. I appreciate that my office isn’t a typical cross section of society, but maybe R3 are loosing more listeners by broadcasting a religious service during a prime time slot?
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What is more profound is the changing aesthetic of music itself. Nothing stands still and the days of quiet cathedrals and wall to wall Howells have given way to Sentamu's drums.
I had heard that since said drums came on the scene the quality of the rest of the music has slipped.
PS Apologies for being totally off subject.
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Yes, I can 'listen again' on the BBC website, but the quality of sound is apalling - worse than an old cassette tape. I could ask someone to record it for me, but the best solution would be to set up a timed recording. Anyone know how? There is no such facility on the website that I can find, and I know of no sound recorder with a timer. Strange, as VCR's have one, and always have.
A Video recorder connected to either a Skybox or a Digi box would do it. Sky + allows you to pause (and play later) any channel. Certain DAB radios have a memory card that also lets you “record” radio to listen later. Hope some of this helps?
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It is alleged that when appointing Christopher Robinson's successor, the mindset at John's was that if you weren't good enough to have been organ scholar at the place, you certaqinly weren't up to the No.1 position. Not sure whether this an urban myth but if it is true and current, it would cdertainly narrow down the field.Speaking (well, writing) of Andrew Nethsingha, he is an old John's man, himself....
Looks like we've found our man then?
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The climb up to the console at Chichester is interesting. It’s got nothing to do with spiral staircases, steep steps or the lack of headroom, just that to reach the console you end up walking through the organ so you see the (tracker) action and some of the pipes (pedal I think). It’s a rare chance to see the insides of an organ at all, let alone one so beautifully crafted as Chichester.
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Wasn't Truro's original console accessed by spiral stone steps?
From what I can gather that was the case. It took several minutes to walk up to the console. I can’t confirm this, but that’s certainly implied in the bumph about the organ.
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While I freely agree that Truro's recent performance on the public stage (Radio 3 Choral Evensong) was well up to par and have no wish to dim anyone's lights
....in the interests of balance, two extra factors in the Truro story:
1. Before Robert Sharpe took over, Andrew Nethsingha was in charge. He has significantly moved Gloucester Cathedral Choir on since his appointment there - the standard is generally acknowledged to have risen substantially. Put it this way, the choir he left behind him was (in fact) good already.
2. Truro Cathedral is now (as of a year ago) blessed with a very musical (and positive) Dean who will have given the choir his complete support, enabling things to move in a Director of Music's direction in several ways that count. I speak from a position of some knowledge here, Revd.Dr.Hardwick was my previous vicar! [stands back to bask in some reflected glory.]
It’s always good to have a supportive Dean, makes the DOM’s life easier. Under the guidance of David Briggs then Andrew Nethsingha and now Robert Sharpe the choir has steadily improved. It’s hard for cathedrals that are at the extremes of the country (well England) to attract quality singers if the money is poor. A supportive Dean can always help, but if there’s no money in the pot then there’s no money in the pot.
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However good everyone might be that gets named here, isn't it a bit invidious for us to try naming our best bets in public like this?
I'd love to name some outstanding (and often overlooked) cathedral directors of music who (because of anno domini or loyalty to a particular post) will probably not be considered (despite being quite possibly exactly what St.J's needs)!
It is a fact: some of our best cathedral choirmasters are not in 'first division' cathedrals. It's a bit like league tables for schools where teachers blessed with good material are deemed to be 'the stars' while ignoring those who (with a far greater challenge) seem to be able to turn the odd sow's ear into something far more useful. Nil nisi bonum of course, but I just loved the story of what happened when the late great George Guest briefly took over the choir at St.David's Cathedral as a locum. By all accounts, the trebles tried their best with his methods for a couple of weeks and then resigned en bloc and wouldn't come back until he had gone.
Perhaps it is a “bit invidious for us to try naming our best bets in public”, but why not?
I appreciate that there are some fine directors that aren’t in first division cathedrals but then (sorry Truro) I never considered Truro as a first division cathedral. What I do know is that Robert has really moved the choir on since he took up post. Whilst the choir there was never a sow’s ear, it has defiantly moved up a notch. This is of course, only my opinion. Others may (and probably will) disagree with me completely.
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Andrew Lumsden is the only other that springs instantly to mind.
How about Andy’s old number two from Lichfield, Robert Sharpe? The results he’s achieved at Truro have been fantastic.
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Oh
it's so easy. Firstly what happens is the"hybird" organs, ie those that are not by one builder but which have "evolved", go on the bonfire. This is called progress but is nothing new however. That in time will see off very many of our major organs. Think about it.
Then, as there will be only thoughbreds left, such as eg Truro, they will be up for the bin treatment. Some bright spark will come along and say such an organ is not perfect, and either turn it into a hybrid (so giving the next Organist a good excuse to chuck the lot out) or it will be said the organ is out of date, any old excuse will do, provided one can line the pocket of some up and coming Organ Builder, who doesn't have a cathedral to his name. QED. Really, it is a most sorry state of affairs, but even those organs we consider immortal will one day go. Some idiots will see to them all.
Think about it.
As to Llandaff, I expect once it was highly regarded, I have never heard it live, but from recordings should have thought much if not all of it worth something surely? But of course, there ain't much dosh in that is there?
R
If what you said wasn’t so true, it would almost be funny. All you’ve got to do is look at any (well most) cathedral organ booklets and you’ll see a list of organs that have been scrapped. Willis (amongst others) seldom kept what was already there in favour of his own pipe work. I suppose the up side is that there are a few parish churches with some cracking (former cathedral) organs.
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Oh dear!
He hath not hid his face from him, but when he / called unto / him. He/heard him.
(2nd half of chant)
Speech rhythms ma dears, if you please.
MM
I just glanced at this thread briefly (this morning) and wrote a quick reply. Speech rhythms are the way to go. I personally don’t think The Oxford Psalter has the best pointing out there.
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He hath not hid his face from him but when he called | unto | him He | heard him
Sounds awfully Parish Psalteresque to me... what happens inevitably is that everyone stalls on "called" and then the rest is banged out metrically and it all sounds hideous.
I would probably go for:
He hath not hid his face from him but when he / called un.to / him He / heard him.
That way you get the emphasis on the matching words ("called" and "heard") and there's no way anyone could grind to a halt on "he". That's for a second part. For a first part I'd go with your first option, which seems fine to me.
A much better solution to the second/forth quarter/half than I cobbled together in about ten seconds this morning.
The big thing is to neither rush nor drag the words. Good pointing can help eliminate the “stalls” but it comes down to the choir/director to get rid of them completely. The hardest thing to overcome is the “we’ve always done it this way” brigade. Adding syllables, elongating words and putting in pauses (where none are required) are a no no.
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This is a joke , right?
Hehathnothidhisfacefromhimbutwhenhecalled__ un - to him__ he__ heardhim_____
What my Dad called Gabble And Thump.
I must say that this isn’t a style of pointing that I familiar with.
He hath not hid his face from him but when he called | unto him. He | heard him
This I personally would find OK or even (for the second quarter/half)
He hath not hid his face from him but when he called | unto | him He | heard him
I’d be interested to see and hear how you’d point that text.
It’s only “Gabble and Thump” if you let your choir sing it that way. It’s not a contest to sing it in the shortest possible time.
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Perhaps you should get yourself one of these.
I think I’ll just stick with my Castle Avon’s, I’ve never found them to be lacking in bass or bass extension.
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Thanks for your reply Tony.
Not just the loudspeaker but where it’s physically located within the room. What precedes it in the recording/playback chain is also important, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). I have found that speaker choice/placement to be personal thing anyway. One persons meat is another’s poison.
it's so easy. Firstly what happens is the"hybird" organs, ie those that are not by one builder but which have "evolved", go on the bonfire. This is called progress but is nothing new however. That in time will see off very many of our major organs. 
21st-century Bach - Worth Another Look?
in The Organ
Posted
K btw. L8rs