John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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23 hours ago, David Drinkell said:
I guess that's a problem with screen organs which have only one speaking front.
I suppose that a non-speaking front could comprise a reflecting board with false pipes in front simply for appearances sake. Expensive, though.
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14 hours ago, John Furse said:
Whilst not pre-supposing owt, it is to be inferred that this must mean that only the ‘major church festivals & more important diocesan gatherings’ will be musicked. Inevitably, the music establishment will become part-time, with part-time musicians - organists, choirs, etc.
To state, therefore, that “the same high standards of music” will be maintained is misleading. In fact, this will be impossible to achieve, with the concomitant diminishing in the frequency of rehearsing and the ensuing lack of continuity.
This makes the second Welsh cathedral to cull its music establishment in recent years - albeit for different reasons.
I suppose that this might be due to a reduction in interest in the Christian religion these days.
A similar situation, as I'm sure many are aware, is the amalgamation of three dioceses in Yorkshire: Ripon, Wakefield and Bradford, to form a single diocese which I believe is now called the Diocese of Leeds. A fair decision, I suppose, in order not to suggest the pre-eminence of any one of the three constituent parts. There still remain three cathedrals, though... for now!
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1 hour ago, handsoff said:
This is terribly sad news for music in Wales. I can't help but think that the problems lie here...
Earlier this year, new facilities – costing more than £600,000 –were opened. A third of a million-pound extension and refurbishment of the cathedral’s vestries created a new Translators’ Tearoom, gender-neutral toilets and a community meeting space. The project was funded by more than £130,000 of grants secured from various bodies, including WREN – £50,000 – and the Garfield Weston Foundation, £25,000. The rest of the money was raised by the cathedral or had been left as legacies.
A £286,000 grant from the National Lottery went towards the creation of a major interactive project that features interactive displays.
All this points to the low regard in which church music and musicians are held in this country.
The exceedingly wealthy, in terms of invested assets, Anglican church is, in my very humble opinion, appallingly badly run. Two of the churches in my own benefice are set to be abandoned within the next 2 or 3 years. The tiny congregations are expected to contribute over £4000 each per annum to the diocese. For what? We see nothing other than pastoral letters and last year another Bishop appointed. There is no "backflow" of support and is hard to see where our money goes. In most forms of business the "branch offices" are supported by "head office". Not so in the Anglican church...
Hear hear. A sign of the times, I'm afraid. How much longer before we return to common sense?
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On 31/07/2018 at 22:07, Damian Beasley-Suffolk said:
Trawling through my camera, I found pictures of an interesting new case at Durham Cathedral:
I recall that H&H actually built and installed it ?
OK, not quite what was asked for! This was part of a Lego model of Durham Cathedral built in 2015, for fundraising. I think you paid a pound for a brick. Great fun, and the finished model was impressive.
I'm sure I posted a response to this post, but it seems to have gone.
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To be honest, I wouldn't expect a layman to know the difference between a pipe and a stop.
Many seem to think that the pipes they see in the case are the sum total.
It can be quite humorous really, like the woman at the recital of the new Manchester Cathedral organ who asked me where the loudspeakers were!
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3 hours ago, Zimbelstern said:
The reeds on my 1914 Hill have certainly gone out of tune with the flue pipes, but it seems far worse in the top two octaves and not so noticeable in the bottom two at the moment. Is this normal? I haven’t really paid much attention to this aspect before.
Perhaps the flues are the ones having gone out of tune!
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Hopefully, many churches remain relatively cool even in this hot weather.
I have even been known to set foot in one just to escape the heat, even if there isn't an organ recital in progress.
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21 hours ago, David Cynan Jones said:
Great! The more female organists, the better.
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9 hours ago, John Pike Mander said:
For the record, I am 69.
JP
Wow, I wouldn't have thought it. You're older than me! Still, I wish you a long and happy retirement.
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40 minutes ago, David Drinkell said:
The YouTube video below shows Henry 4 at St. George's Hall, Liverpool and typifies the unique Willis brand of humour.
Yes, I have a copy of that video. The 'Willis brand of humour' to which you refer begins a bit earlier, at 6:30. I, too, found that very funny.
Then there's the bit about the church organ 'which does not appear on their books', with the explanation of why!
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4 minutes ago, David Drinkell said:
I'm sure all forumites wish you a very long, happy and fulfilled retirement, John. Thank you for all the things you have done to enhance and beautify the organ world.
I'd like to echo that, if I may.
On the other hand, I hadn't thought you were that old, John, going by the last time I saw you a few years ago!
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8 hours ago, innate said:
At the risk of derailing this great main topic, this has always struck me as a very small instrument to have a 32':
And not a single double on the manuals!
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15 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
It doesn't matter, but actually it's a different performance from a different Easter - same stop, though!
Is it? I had no idea! I assumed that it must be the same time and place, just a different viewpoint. Apologies.
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On 25/06/2018 at 15:39, emsgdh said:
May an American join those mourning the death of HWIV ? He was known to many US builders as well as organists and was respected for his generosity and for the warm welcome given at the Willis works. Over here, one is perplexed by the invariable British condemnation of all things Willis and the exaltation of even the most humble H&H production. Was this always so or did it come about as a reaction to the well-known personalities of III & IV ? I've heard and played several extraordinary Willis organs, of all periods, and find them rewarding, to say the least. Conversely, there is more than one H&H job in the US that is extraordinarily coarse, challenging their fabled reputation for impeccable tonal finishing.
I wasn't aware of this. I have heard several Willis organs and can honestly say that they have all sounded excellent to me. In what way has Willis been open to condemnation, because I'm afraid I don't understand?
Having said that, the Harrison ones are good too!
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On 23/06/2018 at 10:16, Martin Cooke said:
One day, you'll be able to write things like this, from the Cathedral of St John the Divine in New York. They have this massive en chamade State Trumpet on the west wall below a rose window.
Thanks. Certainly an impressive sound.
If it is of any interest, I found this:
which is the same performance, obviously filmed by someone in a more favourable positions (plus a bit extra at the beginning) which benefits from avoiding most of the annoying 'audience noise' where people can't shut up and just listen!
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2 hours ago, Zimbelstern said:
Another approach to getting more people to listen to organ music is to include just one or two pieces in a concert devoted to choral music or music played on other instruments where these are held in a church.
Yes, a very good idea. This is what they do in my wife's choir's (Byrd Singers, Manchester) concerts, and it works very well.
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6 minutes ago, S_L said:
How you get away from the extraneous noises of an audience I have no idea!
Don't let them in! ?
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4 minutes ago, Sesquialtera said:
Hallgrimskirkja in Reykjavik have the problem sorted. The backs of the seats there adjust, to enable the congregation/audience to face either east or west, depending on service or recital.
Yes. A logical solution, but how many places would do that. I'm sure most of the incumbents would much prefer everyone to face the altar (for some reason!), in fact I'm surprised that more don't ban organ recitals as being 'distracting'!
Traditional pews could be a bit of a problem, though.
I remember attending an organ recital at Haarlem many years ago. The seating consisted of individual chairs, most of which had been turned around to face west. The recital had already started when a couple of people entered (very quietly) and, as luck would have it, chose two chairs that were still facing the 'wrong' way and turned them around, accidentally banging the legs together a few times rather loudly. I recollect that there was a gentleman in an elevated position to the side of us (although I don't remember Haarlem having balconies at the side) recording the recital on a tape recorder... with a face like thunder!
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1 hour ago, Colin Pykett said:
Later this month I'm planning to attend one which is free, given by a former cathedral organist on an instrument in an elevated west end gallery. The console is attached, though it need not have been because the organ has electric action. The upshot is that we (the audience) will be sitting with our backs to the instrument and the player, who also has his back towards us. How absurd! What other instrument is played like that?
I agree. I'm not being flippant, I really am not, but where organs are on a gallery at the west end of the nave, why can't the seats (or even pews) be turned around. I should mention, I suppose, that as I am an atheist the organ is far more important to me than an altar.
Perhaps a compromise, such as what is frequently found in the Netherlands: seating in the nave facing the middle aisle; side on to both altar and organ.
In answer to your question, though, I suppose we usually only ever see the back of conductors!
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8 minutes ago, Barry Oakley said:
I think you could be right, John. Music is no longer taught in many of our state schools to the depth that it was 50 or 60 years ago. Unfortunately we now live in the age of twang and bang. And then there is the God factor associated with the organ.
Last year when Hull was the so-called 2017 UK City of Culture, the regional BBC TV news programme, Look North, hardly ever aired news of classical music, even though the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra is strongly linked with the city. Throughout the year the main focus was on pop.
There was also a two-day organ event in the City Hall with the renowned organ at its heart. I reminded Look North of this event on a couple of occasions only for them to send its inept anchor man to interview the compere, news reader Huw Edwards. Guess what, he chose to talk to Mr Edwards about news reading.
Yes, society is changing... sadly.
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I wonder whether the lack of interest in organ recitals in this country is related to the rise of 'happy clappy music'!
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13 hours ago, Zimbelstern said:
Sounds pretty much like a lot of British industry. Meanwhile, German organ building has been declared by UNESCO to be part of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, following efforts made by the Federation of German Organ Builders:
“Organ craftsmanship and music: Germany
Inscribed in 2017 (12.COM) on the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity
Organ craftsmanship and music has shaped Germany’s musical landscape and instrument-making for centuries, and there are a diverse number of related traditions in the country. Organ craftsmanship and music are closely related since each instrument is created specifically for the architectural space in which it will be played. The highly specialized knowledge and skills related to the practice have been developed by craftspeople, composers and musicians working together throughout history, and the specialized and mostly informally-transmitted knowledge and skills are significant markers of group identity. Transcultural by its very nature, organ music is a universal language that fosters interreligious understanding. Though mostly associated with church services, concerts and modern cultural events, it is also played during important community-building festivities. There are 400 medium-sized craftspeople’s establishments in Germany, which guarantee its viability and transmission, as well as some larger family-owned workshops. Knowledge and skills related to the element are transmitted through a direct teacher-pupil experience, which is complemented by training in vocational schools and universities. Apprentices gain practical experience in organ construction workshops as well as theoretical knowledge in vocational schools, and efforts to safeguard the element also include teaching in universities and music academies, conferences, and presentations via the media.”
Somehow, I can't imagine that happening here, and it's not due to a lack of a federation of British organ builders.
I'm afraid the organ world here will never have that status and support, not until far many more members of the general population become interested in the instrument and its music.
If only the organ had the same number of aficionados as does football, we'd be world leaders in organ building (some would argue we already are!) and music.
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13 hours ago, Peter Allison said:
"Thank you for your enquiry. I’m afraid that at the moment we don’t do organ recitals, largely because they’ve been insufficiently well supported in the past to justify continuing them."
I'm afraid that this does not surprise me in the least.
Some years ago I attended a recital at Cologne Cathedral and more recently at Passau Cathedral. In each case the building was packed, in fact in the case of Cologne people were sitting on camp chairs in the aisles. We're talking of thousands of organ music fans.
In Britain you'd be very lucky to get a hundred, far less in some places.
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3 hours ago, David Drinkell said:
It is now nearly seventy years since the 1960 rebuild - more than elapsed between 1903 and 1960 and not forgetting Harrisons' major revoicings and enlargements in 1916 and 1931. By any calculation, the organ must by now need some fairly major overhauling. The 1960 rebuild was, generally, a success and subsequent modifications have respected it. I presume that the imminent work will do the same and that the character of the organ will be maintained and further enhanced. I hope that Francis will still be around to hear and approve!
I assume that the alterations that are to take place in the York Minster organ will be to address the perceived problems of the organ not being strong enough to support the many people who can fill the nave. As Francis Jackson has said in the past, if the organ is made much louder to support congregations in the nave, it will be much too loud for the people in the chancel.
Even if these forthcoming changes manage to achieve at least a partial solution, I maintain that a better strategy would be to add what was removed in (I think) 1900; a separate nave organ. More expensive, though, of course! Still, there are many cathedrals which now have a separate nave organ, I don't see why York shouldn't as well.
List of beautiful English Organs
in The Organ
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I can see a happy sleeping monkey as plain as the nose on your face.