John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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3 hours ago, DariusB said:
Sorry for the technical problems yesterday - we are going to re-record all the presentations and contributions from Nicholsons and post them as a separate video this week.
Thank you. I look forward to it.
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16 hours ago, S_L said:
Leeds!! I went to Balmforth's, of blessed memory, in Leeds, years and years ago, to buy a 'cello case for my David Techler 'cello. The 'cello was worth a fortune and I paid £35, a lot of money in those days, for a hard case. I don't think Balmforth's exists anymore and, now, every time I go to Leeds I get lost and there seems to be a new 'Ring Road' or motorway where I want to go! Or, perhaps, I'm just getting old!
Quite apart from the Town Hall organ (and the Leeds Minster organ too) Leeds is the best shopping city outside of London!
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13 hours ago, DariusB said:
I feel very fortunate that while some civic organists and their supporters have to deal with local authorities who are indifferent or even hostile, Leeds City Council has such a strong record in supporting music. (I also hugely appreciate Simon Lindley's role in this). They're one of the few councils still to have a dedicated music department and as well as the organ recitals they run free chamber concerts, brass band concerts etc all over the area as well as the International Concert Season.
Yes indeed.
As far as I'm concerned, Leeds is the centre of the known universe! -
I have been informed that the new Grand Organ is to be sited above the Great and in front of the Swell.
Similarly, the new Solo is to be placed behind the Great.
The one new division I was previously unaware of is the Echo Choir. Can I assume that this will be behind the Choir (previously known as the Positive)? That seems a logical position anyway. -
12 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
If you don't already read the very entertaining British Pipe Organs site on Facebook, there is a really interesting discussion going on at the moment: - https://www.facebook.com/groups/355269498442029/?fref=mentions.
It's all about the merits and de-merits of altering organs when they come to be rebuilt, and generally fiddling with them. Truro is seen, by all of us, I am sure, as a great unchanged cathedral organ (bar the moving of the console, subsequent renewal of the console in the Mander style - [which to my mind was a shame] - and the bringing forward of the Tuba) at the one end of the scale, and then there is, say, Blackburn with its added manual and its digital pedal stops, and the 70's rebuild of Ely, at the other. In the middle of this are instruments like York and Canterbury which had been changed almost endlessly since their incarnation, but both of which seem to have found a happy and harmonious new and glorious state consequent upon their very recent rebuilds. I am bound to say that having followed the work on these two instruments from afar and not knowing either from a playing point of view, H&H and the cathedral teams and advisers have done astoundingly well. But, in 25/30 years' time, when these instruments are no longer 'new' will the incumbent organists still want to fiddle when they are rebuilt? (Some of us will never know!) And is it reasonable that they might? Anyway, I do not seek to detract from the discussion on the other site - it, and other discussions there, are always lively and interesting.
Good question.
It seems to me that tastes change quite regularly in the organ world, at least in this country, and consequently many organs (if the money is there) are re-worked/re-designed (put it as you will) quite regularly to fit in with the tastes of the time.
As an example, the recent changes effected at York have, admittedly, resulted in a more effective output of sound particularly in the nave where, as I understand it, the organ was rather lacking in power. At the same time, though, I believe that all of the historic pipework, especially from Hill and Elliot and Hill, has been retained. -
I hope that Darius doesn't mind me pre-empting him, but I have just found a post on Facebook detailing the rebuild of the Leeds Town Hall organ by Nicholson's. Their information is here:
http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/2021-06-07-LTH-website-spec.pdf
I must say that I'm impressed with the scale and scope of this rebuild. It is much more expansive than I had imagined and all who are involved should, in my opinion, be congratulated for their forward thinking.
Darius, if I have posted out of turn, please say so and I shall delete this.
John -
7 minutes ago, SlowOrg said:
Is there any other way to order the book than from the York Minster’s shop (which, at this time, doesn’t ship to the EU)? I’d be very much interested in purchasing a copy.
I'm afraid I don't know. I have looked on Amazon (who, of course, do ship to the EU) but there's no sign of it being available there.
Perhaps someone else can help. -
1 minute ago, Nathan said:
I'm pleased I stumbled on this thread. Great to see they have a book out (just ordered it). When I was a kid, I purchased a book / pamphlet on St Paul's Cathedral Organ back in the 80's. It's had updates in 1994 and 2008 by Mander Organs. They don't seem to do a book now.
I have just received mine in the post and I can tell you that it's an excellent work, far better even than what I was hoping for. Not only the history including specifications and pictures, but also the information about the recent rebuild which is comprehensive and includes diagrams of the internal layout, for which I am particularly grateful.
I can firmly recommend it to you. -
10 minutes ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
John, from deepest Southern England I fully share your admiration for the Minster organ which I first heard played by Francis Jackson almost 70 years ago! That memory has remained ever since. I was able to be at York for the final Evensong and recital with the organ encased in scaffolding before being taken down for the rebuild.
As well as sounding magnificent, the restored case and pipe decoration are also to be treasured - indeed, showing a photograph of it to a friend in USA his response was “what a magnificent case”. I remember at the wedding of the Duke of Kent and Miss Katharine Worsley (when FJ played them out to Widor V Toccata - did that create the fashion?) the ITV television camera took in a general view of the west-facing case, and the commentator gratuitously remarked that it was “not very attractive” - how wrong he was, but sadly quite typical of ignorant comment about organs. On my recent retirement, I was presented with two pipes. On proudly showing the larger one, 4’ and gilt, to someone they asked “what is it?”!
Sadly, I'm afraid that demonstrates the general lack of interest in organs in this country. Do the same in Holland or Germany and just about everyone would know what it is.
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I've just had the pleasure of watching 'The Organs of York Minster 1236 - 2021' book launch from York Minster (was unable to attend in person).
It's still here:for another seven days, if anyone's interested.
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I'm afraid that 'honours', at least these days, signify nothing more than 'who you know'!
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8 hours ago, contraviolone said:
I'm sure you know quite a lot. I think on a previous thread we mentioned this issue. Of the stops you mentioned I am surprised the Cornet was removed. This is such a versatile addition to any specification. It's also a useful 'support' for the treble reeds.
I'm afraid not! I know very little other than what I have read and I wish I knew a great deal more. I also confess to not being an organist, so please don't place any great weight on any suppositions I come up with! Thanks anyway, though.
Re. the York Minster organ, the 1960 and 1993 alterations/additions were, I believe, intended to make the instrument more suitable for 'correctly' playing 'baroque' music. That's nice (as far as I'm concerned) inasmuch as it might make the organ more 'all singing and all dancing', but on the other hand it could be argued that the ideal British organ should sound 'British' and not attempt to sound German, French and even Iberian into the bargain!
I have only heard the 'new' York organ online so far but even then I do think it sounds excellent, within those restrictions of course. Incidentally, I remember once suggesting that a small 'nave organ' might be added advantageously to carry the sound (and the timing) down the nave, but I'm probably completely wrong and the 'new' instrument will no doubt not need any such addition.
Now, as for some strident west-end trumpets as at St Pauls... !
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27 minutes ago, pcnd5584 said:
They do seem to be rather nervous of upper-work. Anything above a 29th appears to be anathema. It will be good to hear the re-designed instrument in York Minster in the flesh, as it were, at some point. However, in that vast space, and with that acoustic energy, I wonder if they will miss their Choir Cymbal (29-33-36)?
I mentioned related matters on a thread on Facebook recently, asking about the loss of the Cornet, Sesquialtera and Larigot, and was assured by someone in authority at the Minster that these would not be missed.
In addition, I believe that the new west shutters to the Swell box have made an enormous difference to the output in the nave. Then there is the Ophicleide extension down to 32' on the same pressure as the Tuba Mirabilis.
I've only heard it on recordings so far, so what do I know?! -
8 hours ago, Vox Humana said:
I have mentioned this organ before, etc.
I noticed earlier this evening, and again when I clicked 'this' above, that NPOR doesn't seem to be working.
Does anyone have any ideas of what the problem might be? -
10 hours ago, DariusB said:
If the trumpet is on a low-ish pressure, it will fall off markedly in the treble, whereas the cornet will be non-existent at the bottom, quiet in the middle and get much stronger in the treble. Drawing them together is sometimes the only way to get an even volume through the whole compass.
Yes, I can see why Cornets can be particularly useful.
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6 hours ago, SomeChap said:
Peterhouse's organ is due to be replaced with a slighly crazy scheme for Klais and Flentrop to collaborate on a new/old organ with two actions and two consoles, currently stuck at design stage - see https://www.pet.cam.ac.uk/organ
I see that it's a Snetzler organ (or was!). I really hope that as much original material as possible is kept and in use.
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12 hours ago, S_L said:
I don't know to be honest John. It was, certainly, loud!
My late wife used to tell me of an organ recital she went to in the Minster, given by a well-known, and still alive, distinguished organist. She sat, in her innocence on the front row of the Nave only to go home with a ringing in her ears as he made, to say the least, liberal use of the Tuba Mirabilis. This would be around 1962/3 - she would have been 10 or 11 years old!! My only experience of York Minster is playing annually 'cello continuo in there for Matthew/John Passion/Messiah etc. - usually with FJ conducting although I did take a choir to sing Evensong in the 1980's and, yes, slightly to my annoyance because I didn't think it was particularly appropriate for a Saturday evensong, my organist played the Cocker Tuba Tune afterwards!!!
I think it is a disgusting piece of music - but great fun!!!
Marge (my wife - not her real name) loves it (as do I), and she is certainly not a lover of organ music!
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4 hours ago, S_L said:
I wonder how many forumites listened to Evensong this evening from York Minster.
Beautifully sung - and ending with the Cocker Tuba Tune!!
Here it is:
LIVE: Choral Evensong and the Installation of Honorary Canons - YouTube
I did. Is the Tuba Mirabilis rather brighter than before, or is it my imagination - or the recording, of course?
Although the image during the Cocker was from the Chancel, I assume that the sound was recorded from the Nave side. -
13 minutes ago, SomeChap said:
A glimpse of the nave console at Ripon
Thanks! Many other excellent pictures of Ripon and the cathedral too. I must make an effort to take another trip to the city of Ripon, assuming that we'll be able to enter such places once again!
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5 hours ago, sjf1967 said:
this looks fun, if you like Lego (which I very much do, having a small son around the place) https://ideas.lego.com/projects/50ad334b-fc10-4e8e-b1f1-a4c74fb3b80b?fbclid=IwAR1KjhWNpS4Is3gnZ9_L3pZkYpGqpl_eIfc33Jh4BnwQsip0vdPzkXnwakE
Excellent! I want one! Er, does it play?
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1 hour ago, Martin Cooke said:
Did we hear the Tuba Mirabilis at any point? There were definite tuba-ings in the pre-service music but was that the famous stop?
I doubt it! I think that must have been one of the enclosed tubas.
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8 hours ago, Rowland Wateridge said:
Sadly I missed it. Living in the Southern Province I watched the BBC televised Eucharist from Canterbury Cathedral with the Archbishop presiding. Mixed feelings about some of it; I thought the girls’ choir was impressive. David Newsholme directed and Andrew Bawtree played the organ. It was difficult to get any real impression of the organ from the sound quality of an ancient television. Andrew Bawtree certainly opened up the organ in the closing voluntary, Guilmant’s “Grand Choeur”, but in best BBC tradition this was faded out to a scene of someone preparing pastry with a rolling-pin! One realises that time schedules come into play, but this seemed unnecessarily insensitive.
I get the impression that, unfortunately, the BBC are not exactly great fans of the organ!
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9 hours ago, swalmsley said:
Based on today's Festal Eucharist, admittedly only via YouTube, I have to say the rebuild sounds to be a triumphant success! The distinctive sound of that organ is still very much in evidence, but there is just more of everything, especially as the choruses build! Congratulations to all involved on a clever plan very well executed!
Yes, I watched that (on YouTube) earlier today and I completely agree that the organ sounded wonderful. I was especially impressed with the Swell which sounded particularly clear, presumably because of the new shutters on the west side of the box (assuming that the sounds were recorded from the nave!).
I'm looking forward to listening to the evensong and dedication of the organ when I have time, probably tomorrow.
Congratulations to Harrisons and, of course, to Robert Sharpe who no doubt led the decisions on the rebuilding of the instrument. I have suggested elsewhere that I thought it sad that the organ had lost its Cornet and Sesquialtera, but I now realise my mistake and that it really doesn't need either of those two voices.
One day, hopefully, I shall have the opportunity to hear it in 'real life', when I shall possibly have the opportunity to hear ALL FOUR or the 32' stops (one at a time, of course) and which cannot possibly demonstrate properly their voices even on my hi-fi system!
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1 hour ago, Martin Cooke said:
I am tempted to say either Canterbury or York Minster - (but failing either of those for some reason or another) - St Paul's Cathedral... and Widor Symphony 6 or Dupré Prelude and Fugue in B major.
And if Priory were to do one more DVD... I'd like a new one for Canterbury or York.
I agree about York or Canterbury.
Yes, Priory have done both before (I have both), but of course since then both organs have been rebuilt/'done up', so they are likely to sound quite different.
Twelfth-century Pipe Organ Discovered
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
Very interesting. However, call me stupid, but in some of those pictures all the pipes seem to be of exactly the same length. Have I misunderstood something?