John Robinson
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Posts posted by John Robinson
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22 hours ago, Philip Moore said:
When I first arrived at the Minster in 1983, the Octave and Suboctaves worked on the Tuba Mirabilis. Unless every note was bang in tune, it could sound terrible even with either one of the couplers. Those stops are at their best in single notes, iMHO. In 1990 we decided not to connect them and I never missed them.
According to the 2020 Harrison specification, the Solo will include octave, unison off and sub-octave couplers, though it doesn't state whether or not the Tuba Mirabilis will be affected by these. I think if it were to be so, it would produce a devastating sound.
I'm sure Robert Sharpe could clarify matters. -
17 hours ago, Philip Moore said:
This site is a real time-waster and utterly absorbing! (I have only just joined.) I have read with great interest the comments about York Minster; Robert Sharpe and Harrisons must be congratulated for sorting out the organ so comprehensively. Philip Marshall, (Lincoln) told me many years ago that you could feel a real punch from the pre-1961 organ even at the back of the Nave. It's especially good that some of the case pipes will speak once again.
Yes, I have had an interest in the development of the York Minster organ for many years. I remember reading somewhere that Francis Jackson described the instrument as changing 'chameleon-like' over the years to accommodate current tastes. Francis, of course, added a number of mutations (Cornet, Sesquialtera, Nazard, Tierce, Larigot) during his tenure, only two of which remain in the current rebuild which I think is a shame. Of course, we can't keep adding more and more stops into a limited amount of space and the additions and alterations being done by Harrisons at the moment will be, I think, a great advantage in making the instrument more assertive especially when being used with a full nave. I particularly like the addition of a second 32' reed in the Pedal and a Harmonics mixture in the Great.
When all is completed, I very much hope that Priory might be persuaded to produce a second DVD/BD of the York Minster organ, which would provide an interesting comparison of the new with the old (a copy of which I already have, of course). -
4 hours ago, Damian Beasley-Suffolk said:
That's a fabulous photo of York, taken as a stereoscopic pair. Popular in Victorian times, Brian May of Queen is an enthusiastic and knowledgeable collector and curator of these pictures and the viewers for them. Many people can see the 3D effect clearly, unfortunately I can't, perhaps I should try harder, with the rest of that online collection.
I believe that such photos need to be viewed using a special apparatus such that the left picture is viewed by the left eye and the right with the right.
I am able to cross my eyes to view such pictures, but the two would have to be exchanged side to side. I might try that using Photoshop when I have a few minutes. -
10 hours ago, OwenTurner said:
Coincidentally I stumbled into this picture this evening https://collections.st-andrews.ac.uk/photographs/item/york-minster---the-stone-screen/610492/viewer#?#viewer&c=&m=&s=&cv=&manifest=https%3A%2F%2Fcollections.st-andrews.ac.uk%2F610492%2Fmanifest&xywh=-901%2C-195%2C8786%2C3895
which shows west end chamades quite clearly. I would presume this photo to be from the late 19th century.
Interesting. I wonder what the boxes with crosses underneath the pipes are. At first, I thought they might be wood pipes, but that would be pointless.
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Thanks for this. We were there in March last year and, of course, visited St Stephan's. I wondered at the time, looking at the no-longer-functioning console, what the rebuild might turn out like.
It does look like the previous organ facade but, reading the information provided, the contents seem to have been enlarged and the description of the internal layout is particularly interesting.
I, too, look forward to hearing it at some time in the future. -
3 hours ago, P DeVile said:
If you missed today's Bridgewater hall recital on youtube by Jonathan Scott - here it is:
P
Yes, I enjoyed that. I thought the sound was really quite good even on my laptop speakers. A good choice of music, too, which should please most.
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Quite unusual and, yes, beautiful.
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11 hours ago, John Pike Mander said:
This was a repeat of what happened when the Town Hall was built. The Open Wood 32' pipes for that were delivered by canal barge. Those were the pipes which HW4 cut up with a chain saw for some inexplicable reason, leaving parts of the sawn up pipes in the organ.
NPOR states that in 1979 the bottom 8 pipes were removed 'to improve access'.
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I don't suppose anyone here attended, but the organ was very impressive. I have never heard it played flat out as tonight, in both the Grande Choeur Dialogue and the Vierne Mass. I think it would have been more than adequate in a middle-sized cathedral. The toaster was nowhere by comparison.
Oh, and the choir was OK as well!
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5 hours ago, Martin Cooke said:
John - not sure if it will help but the heading on your post says 2019.
Thank you Martin. Corrected now.
Some would say that I live in the past!
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May I please provide details of a forthcoming choir and organ recital by the William Byrd Singers at 7.30pm on Saturday 29th February 2020 at Christ Church, West Didsbury, Manchester, M20 2DZ. Conductor: Keith Orrell, organists: Richard Lea and Robert Woods. Tickets: £12, £10 (concessions), £5 (students), available online (www.eventbrite.co.uk), or at the door (although these events are usually very well attended!)
Eugène Gigout: Grande Chœur Dialogué from Six Pieces d’Orgue (2 organs – RL RW)
Fauré: Cantique de Jean Racine (with organ – RW)
Joubert: Pro pace motets
Libera pleben
O tristia secla priora
Solus ad victimam
Joubert: Prelude on ‘Picardy’ Op. 55 (with organ – RL)
Clausen: In pace
Vierne: Messe Solennelle Op 16 (2 organs – RL RW)
Kyrie eleison
Gloria in excelsis Deo
Sanctus
Benedictus
Agnus Dei
(Although it is advertised as featuring two organs, it is actually one organ (details on NPOR) and a toaster!)
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16 hours ago, ptindall said:
Apparently not. Klaas Bolt's booklet (1985) says that bottom C of the the 32 is 371mm. The 16ft HW Prestant is 222mm at C.
Still quite narrow. I'll have a look for my booklet tomorrow when I have more time.
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On 04/02/2020 at 13:01, MusoMusing said:
Like all things, there are exceptions. I cringe to think what the 32ft pure Cornish tin facade at the Bavokerk, Haarlem might cost to-day!
I seem to recall from a booklet I can't lay my hands on right now, that the 32' Praestant is of a relatively narrow scale, the bottom C of 235mm (9.25") diameter if I recall, which seems very narrow comparatively speaking. I must have another look for the booklet to check my facts.
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15 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
Sorry to keep banging on about it, but if one wants or needs to retain recorded information for an indefinitely long time, then the problem of 'media rot' is a major one as I said in a post above. Hence my interest in keeping backups, not only as backups per se, but backups on different types of physical media.
Exactly. I have recorded some of my favourite organ LPs on to minidisc for exactly that reason, but also for the convenience of being able to listen to them in bed (you can't easily play LPs in bed) - listening using headphones, of course, so as not to disturb Marge!
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22 minutes ago, DaveHarries said:
Well done MM.
Dave
Hear hear.
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12 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
Agree entirely! It's a pity in my view that the Minidisc came and went so quickly, but the main reason was that there wasn't enough pre-recorded material made available quickly enough to satisfy the largely teenage market, and simultaneously the sub-market consisting of those (like you and me!) who wanted a new, economical and convenient way of making digital recordings just wasn't big enough. However there are signs of an upturn in interest, though obviously only for the existing equipment still around which seems to be getting quite sought-after now. As an example, I bought a Sharp portable (Walkman-type) player/recorder nearly 20 years ago when they came out at a cost approaching £100. Lovely little thing, and still working fine and very handy to have. In 2010 I got a nearly-unused identical model off ebay for less than £10 as a back up. But now the same items are attracting almost their original prices again. So there must be a small army of people out there somewhere who share our views!
Yes, I can believe it!
I really hope that they begin making these again (though I doubt it) because if and when my Minidisc turns its toes up I shall desperately want to replace it. Perhaps, if it does pack up, a repair might be possible.
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Just my four penn'orth, but I have a Sony Minidisc which I find perfectly good. I understand from reviews, etc, that it isn't exactly hi-fi, but with my high-frequency hearing loss (discussed elsewhere) I can honestly say that I can't hear the difference (using good headphones) to my hi-fi system with four-way speakers!
It's also far better than my old tape cassette player (now ditched) which medium, I have to say, has always been hopeless what with low quality reproduction, tapes stretching and getting tangled up. -
9 hours ago, jwillans said:
On a positive note - the organist training programme run out of Leeds Cathedral under David Pipe seems to be doing tremendously well. To the extent where they have added additional teachers into the programme.
I'm pleased to see that Leeds seems to be a forward looking city with regard to the organ, what with this, the proposed alterations and additions to the Town Hall organ and the continuation of free lunchtime recitals there as well.
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2 hours ago, David Surtees said:
If there were a culture in this country that valued the organ, the demise of Christianity would not be an issue. It is worth comparing the situation here with that in the Netherlands. In an increasingly secular society many churches have closed, but the organs (often of huge historical significance) remain in use. The number of organ recitals that take place seems staggering, and they are by and large very well supported.
It seems unlikely to me that the Dutch organ building industry will die out any time soon.
Our last vestige of hope?
Yes, certainly the Christian church is dying out in this country and some believe that the organ may die out with it.
On the other hand, we still have concert hall organs which appear to attract some sort of audience and, of course, we still have cathedrals and Oxbridge colleges in which organ music is still heard. In fact, there must be still some support as both Canterbury and York cathedrals are presently having their organs rebuilt (per a thread on this web site!).
To be perfectly honest, as an atheist, churches being closed down doesn't concern me too much, accepting that they are closing because people appear not to want them. That sort of sounds fair. Sad, though, that organs are also disappearing locally.So what is the answer? I'd like to think that if the Dutch can do what they're doing, perhaps we can. Unfortunately, I can't think how we'd go about that. When a primary teacher, I did attempt to instil some sort of early interest in the organ among my charges. I have no idea how successful or otherwise I was.
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On 31/12/2019 at 09:20, Stanley Monkhouse said:
I've not started a topic before, so I hope this is in the correct section of the forum. Two questions about 32 ft flues.
Why did Willis I use metal at Carlisle and Salisbury, but (assuming only one 32ft flue) wood elsewhere? At Carlisle they're the first thing that greets you when you walk in, and metal looks better. But at Salisbury that is not the reason - they're no more or less obvious than those at, say, Durham, Hereford, Winchester. Metals sound rather different - they can have more 'drive' - but not that much
Sadly, I have never had the opportunity to directly compare a 32' Wood with a 32' Metal, but I had assumed that the metal pipes would have more harmonic development than the wood ones, giving the metal ones more 'drive' as you describe it, and the wood pipes possibly being more weighty and 'foundational'.
I'd be interested to know whether or not that is, in fact, the case. -
13 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:
Like you, John, I’m not an organist but an avid listener who also leaned towards construction. So far this Christmas I’ve not played a single carol CD, simply relying on the radio broadcast from King’s. What CD listening I’ve done has been much needed dust-offs of Tournemire, Duruffle, Dupre, Langlais, Whitlock and, of course, Bach, etc.
Yes, unfortunately I have never been able to develop the necessary skills to play. If a genie should ever offer me three wishes, one of them would be that I was able to play the organ well. I have not yet considered the other two!
My Christmas music consisted, this year, of only two sources: the King's Nine Lessons and Carols and a CD of their Christmas music.
I was pleased to find that their standard of music has remained, under their new musical director, as excellent as it was under the distinguished Stephen Cleobury. -
King Jesus Hath a Garden
Quittez Pasteurs
(No, I didn't play them. I'm not an organist. I enjoyed listening to them. I'm very good at listening!)
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On 20/12/2019 at 06:54, Andrew Butler said:
The only time I have had a problem with time lag was when I was playing for a big deanery service at Canterbury (the Mander) and included a Stanley voluntary beforehand. The Cornet on the Choir Organ, being at the furthest east end of the triforium from the console was ever so slightly "behind" the accompaniment (Swell or Great flutes - can't remember) Not a lot, but enough to put me off in limited rehearsal time, so I programmed something else.
That's interesting, and it prompts me to ask whether coupling a more local division to a remote one might help with this sort of thing. Perhaps attempting to pay more attention to the local sound might help with 'ignoring' the slightly delayed remote sound.
I should point out that I am not an organist, so please don't be afraid to point it out if I am talking a load of tripe! -
9 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:
I've found this thread extremely interesting and useful. Just one question - my NHS aids currently do the job quite well at the moment, but if I wanted to try purchasing privately, what's the best route into the private providers' sector? I would want to avoid those who would say their products and service are wonderful in all conceivable respects, in favour of one which hopefully would be less biased and more objective. Are the usual high street chains any good or does one need to be more discriminating?
Many thanks.
As with most things, it is a good idea to compare different options. Many hearing aid outlets offer a trial period (mine did, anyway - Boots) and, presumably, you can try a pair here, try a different brand elsewhere, and so on.
To be honest, I didn't though. I went with the first pair - Phonak, but on reflection perhaps I should have tried different ones.
York Minster organ rebuild
in Nuts and bolts
Posted
How very interesting. Clever use of different octave couplers to make full use of the available stops. I wasn't aware of the 'Pedal Divide Solo Octave to Pedal' coupler until now.
The more I hear about this organ, the more fascinating it becomes.
Thank you.