Colin Harvey

The copper flaming at Dulwich has gone off a bit with age and the pipes now just look a bit dirty - there are finger marks all over them. They need a good clean and polish! However, it is a successful modern case and perfect for the building so deserves a mention here. Ken's done some good cases - Oakham and Douai deserve a mention as you say, as does Cheltenham Girls' School. Some of his cases can look a bit "samey" - it quite often looks like he re-uses the case design from his last organ and just tweaks it in CAD for its new situation. This seems especially prevalent for parish churches. But there's nothing new in this, from the stock organs by Walkers &c in the 19th Century and the frequently somewhat repititive cases in the 18th Century by people like Griffen, etc, who must have used standardised designs.

The comparison is interesting. Maybe it's just the quality of the recording or playback equipment or maybe even the playing but I found 10 minutes of unremitting tierce mixtures in the Bach F major toccata at Guinkirchen a bit too much for my ears. I had to turn it off after 5 minutes and don't really want to listen to it again - and this on one of my favourite pieces of Bach. Maybe it's a different experience listening to it in the flesh. The Wagner sounds gentler and clearer. The choruses clearly aren't voiced as hard and the result is much better and clearer - at least on the strength of the recordings. However, I still don't know whether I could handle the Bach f major on this organ with unremitting tierce mixtures for 10 minutes.

I've just been listening to the Pipedream's broadcast on the Wanamaker organ and am completely stunned by it. Go to http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/listings/2008/0835/ and play it - go to the Elgar Nimrod (at about 37 minutes) - it's the most incredible crescendo and diminuendo I've ever heard (and this from a die-hard "purist"). It really is the epitome of smooth build-up and orchestral sonority. Peter Conte's introduction to playing it on this organ is very illuminating too.

Martin Haselböck also does quite a bit of editing, especially for Universal.

Don't quote me here but I think Manders & H&H use full-on AutoCAD. Don't know how much 3D work they do - most of their drawings tend to be 2D but I guess they must use 3D - they've both got full time designers. Both workshops have invested pretty heavily in CAD, with powerful workstations, etc. Was it Walkers or Nicholsons who now have a computer controlled router which they use to drill soundboards and various other items?

Suggest you contact Institute of British Organ Building www.ibo.co.uk Royal College of Organists www.rco.org.uk Hill, Norman & Beard originated the RCO specification - maybe John Norman could help you further? It's also worth contacting the Incorporated Society of Organ Builders' www.isob.org.uk. They'll have details of the continental BDO standard r/c pedalboards. Good luck! hope you find what you're looking for...

I'd second Wolsey and recommend Le Tombeau de Titelouze: it's probably the best introduction into Dupre's style. The final piece, Placare Christe Servulis is a very good stepping stone into Dupre's more virtuostic pieces, like the B major P&F, and, like many of the pieces in this book, very useful to have under your fingers. I've never heard of anyone injuring themselves playing Dupre's music but I've heard lots of organists injure Dupre's music, especially the B major P & F. The best approach learning Dupre is to be very, very disciplined - his music really repays careful, slow practice and working out all the fingerings and technique. Use a metronone a lot, especially with the toccata style music - start at half speed and get comfortable with it before you turn it up a notch. Keep repeating this process at each notch, keeping 100% accuracy all the time. It's the only way: learn to enjoy playing it slowly, which you will do because Dupre's music is brilliantly written and there is a lot to enjoy when playing it slowly. The B Major P&F sounds superb at 80% speed with 100% accuracy - but it sounds horrible if you try to play it too fast to begin with and get unstuck - as many young and inexperienced organists do! There are a lot of difficult corners in this piece, especially the first 4 pages of the fugue.

I'm not sure I see things in the same black-and-white way that many of the responses above do. Each organ and each potential project needs to be assessed on its own merits and a number of factors and circumstances affect the decisions made. The factors include: How viable is it to restore the organ to its original condition? How desirable is it to restore the organ to its original condition? On the desirability, people need to look at whether the original organ is worthy of restoration - what if it was a poor organ by a poor builder from the beginning? And also consider whether it really is the right thing to restore the organ or leave it as it is. On the viability, people need to assess how accurately and successfully an historic restoration can be achieved and how likely it is to happen. We also need to be concious that there are various points of view to assess the organ for viability and desirability: Some people will be looking at the organ from a functional point of view - how will it work in its environments for its tasks? Will it do everything wanted in the way people want it to do it? (Many people who contribute to this forum fall into this group - and I can remember a story of a couple of experts almost coming to blows at Naumberg over how to register and play the organ). Others will look at it from a object and contextural point of view - how does this organ fit in with other organs? What does it represent of organs and organbuilding? And in some cases, the organ cannot be regarded as a whole, especially if different parts come from different sources - what about the organ at Old Radnor? What should we do with the Walker organ of 1870 in the C15th case? Just from the purely organ-based point of view, it's necessary to judge the organ on its own merits, whether or not it meets your own or current tastes. What should we do with an early Grant, Degens and Rippen organ with 1960s electric action? Of course some people will always perceive some restorations to have been inappropriate. Some historic restorations have been done badly. But a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so are these arguments really a case that historic restoration is an invalid avenue?

It depends on the function of the organ. If it were primarily for choral accompaniment, maybe the schemes suggested above might be suitable, if limited for other parts of the repertoire. However, congregational accompaniment work really requires at least a 4' principal plus some variety in upperwork so I could not condone many of the schemes above. In addition, I think the value of having a half decent chorus on an organ should never be overlooked for large swathes of the repertoire. It is quite possible to come up with quite a respectable amount of subtle gentle colour with a useful stop or 2 in a swell box and a couple of well thought out foundation stops on the great. As Nick seems to be talking about a small parish church setting with today's requirements (which are mainly congregational accompaniment with occasional, not-too-demanding choral work (we're not going to be dealing with a top-flight choir in 99% of cases here...), and a reasonable selection for a wide-ranging repertoire), my suggestion is: Great Organ Open Diapson 8 Stopped Diapason 8 Principal 4 Fifteenth 2 Swell Organ Violin Diapason 8 (maybe stopped bottom octave) Gemshorn 4 Oboe Gambe 8 (maybe from T.C. if space is an issue) Pedal Organ Bourdon 16 Swell to Great Swell to Pedal Great to Pedal I think I could do everything on this organ - from playing a hymn with a full congregation to accompanying the annual Choral Evensong with Psalms and Stanford in Bb, to a Bach Chorale Prelude. Those strongly voiced string stops that sound more like reeds are a good idea in small organs so I've included one here. They can be very effective and they're cheaper to make and don't need so much tuning and attention - so useful in a small organ that might only get attention once a year (if that). Without any reeds, tuning access doesn't have to be such a consideration in the organ, so it can be more compact. Mechanical octave couplers are best avoided at all costs - they rarely work properly for very long (especially if we consider the likely tuning and attention of most small parish church organs) and they are very heavy.

See www.guildhall-compton.org.uk I thought this might be of interest to folk. The Southampton Guildhall Compton Organ has been brought back into full working order. The inaugural recital is 19th October 2008 at 3.30pm with Carlo Curley and Richard Hills. Further details on the website. This organ, Compton's largest all-new installation, is a dual-purpose instrument with two consoles, one controlling the 'classical' pipes of the organ while the other is designed and is connected to the 'theatre' or 'variety' part. It is possible to play both consoles at the same time - quite a spectacle! This organ is quite a marvel of construction: it was designed in collaboration with the Guildhall architects and is an ideal fusion of building and organ. It sits in chambers above the stage, apart from the 32' Diaphone (in full working order) and 32' reed, which are in a pit to stage left of the stage. The electro-mechanical relays have their own room and are in perfect working order after 70 years - it's quite a marvel to see them in operation. The organ lapsed into an unplayable state due to lack of use and poorly managed maintenance. As the organ didn't get used, many of the electro-pnuematic actions leathers (more accurately, rubber-coated cloth called "tosh") seized solid, rendering the pipes off speech. This organ's voicing and regulation are diametrically opposed to what was written about many theatre organs and organs built in the 1930s by early organ reform movement authors. The speech and regulation are excellent and the sounds are musical and sibilant. There is no "thickness" or "heaviness" about the diapasons, despite sitting on 6'' of wind and some being heavily leathered - it challenges the assumption low pressures are necessary for musical speech and sounds. It really is a superb and versatile musical instrument. Specifications (from NPOR): Classical: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N11620 Theatre: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N18285 Looking through the specs, you'll see it has everything imaginable - second touch, early electronic sounds (a melotone in full working order!), Cornet des Bombardes, etc...

Interesting. Doubled Unisons and Octaves are nothing new on the continent - the choir organ at Alkmaar has a 4' principal trebled in the treble. (?!) And it dates in part from 1511... So it's been done on the continent for centuries. It is very interesting to see it making a comeback on what otherwise looks like a very standard mainstream modernist movement Germanic organ. I find this far more interesting than the reams of text on the web page about the organ case. Whoever's comissioned it clearly wants a very loud organ.

Glad to hear the news. Personally, I find socks uncomfortable. It might be to do with the pedalboard on my organ, which has very narrow sticks and is quite heavy as it is mechanical action. The pedalboard is also made to an historic pattern so the ends of the sharps aren't rounded as you would find on a modern pedalboard or toaster and this can make things quite uncomfortable. I'm also not fond of sweaty socks on pedalboards - it looks undignified and very casual for some reason. But then, I'm the sort of person who's banned an organist from playing at my church because of personal hyigene issues...

Hello Chaps Cameron Carpenter has become quite a controversial figure, polarising opinions. To be honest, I haven't been that positive about him: while I admire his prodigious technical ability and musical talent, I'm uncomfortable with the homoerotic image he's adopted and concerned that such showmanship without any apparent regard to the centuries of organ culture may encourage a lack of respect to old, historic organs and old organ music. Sometimes I've felt his showing off has been at the expense of the musical depth he could be capable of and I'm naturally suspicious of anyone or anything that has people fawning all over him. However, while finding out more about the claim that Cameron designs his own organ shoes (related to another topic), I came across this - Cameron's transcription of the final movement of Mahler 5: http://www.cameroncarpenter.com/pdf/Mahler5LastMovement.pdf This work by Cameron and his own comments about it have made me see him in a different light. I also learnt he studied at the Juilliard School with Gerre Hancock and Paul Jacobs as well. What do other people think?

As I mentioned above, Cameron wears white Latino dance shoes with cuban heels. here's an example: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmg0sATtCRo

I now wear suede soled dance shoes and swear by them. They're a really good idea: they're also really light and small (so you don't notice them so much if you're on the move) and very quiet on the pedals so pedal clatter becomes something of the past - not to be overlooked!! Best place to pick them up is a dance shoe shop - go to yell.com and find your nearest. I went in and was very honest about what I wanted the shoes for and was told I wasn't the first organist to visit. Dance shoe sizes in practice tend to be a size or two smaller than normal and you really need to try them on and find a pair that fit well before parting with your cash. Get a fit as close as a glove but you'll still find them a size or two larger than you're used to. I noticed Cameron Carpenter wears latino dance shoes, with cuban heels - if you want high(er) heels, it's probably a good way to go. And they seem to work for Cameron, whose pedal technique is very impressive... I found my shoes and Cameron's on the internet: mine: http://www.supadance.com/acatalog/9000_Black_Leather.html Cameron's: http://www.supadance.com/acatalog/8400_White_Satin.html But do try them on before you buy any! As you see, they can be an expensive mistake if they're the wrong size...

Hear! Hear! Absolutely spot on Pierre!!

I'm not sure. I don't think this was a stop Cecil Clutton ever (had need to) used. Certainly never used a contra or double ception.

Maybe it's a WerkPrinzip organ and the fagotto is on a 4 foot division (as many WerkPrinzip swell organs are) so it is correctly labeled "Contra Fagotto" to denote it as an octave below the pitch centre of that division. Maybe there is also a 4' trumpet to accompany the 8' Contra Fagotto (but no 8' trumpet, obviously)

Lol I don't doubt WM's virtuosity at all - I thought he had a relaxed and easy looking technique which was quite up to any challenges. Psychologically, he's got confidence in his ability so he doesn't worry so much about it, either. I think you're right - once you can play the notes of this, you can play it at any speed, as WM showed. The issue I have is with his taste and judgment - which are possibly more important features of musicianship than technique, as the soprano that evening showed - if I'm honest I thought she was having a few issues with the higher register of her voice (it was lush in the lower registers though - I thought she was a contralto at times) but as a performance, it was spectacular - her interpretation was extraordinary, backed by real depth of understanding, emotion and expression. Technically, I felt the piano solo contained far more technical keyboard challenges. Having looked through Dieu Parmi Nous once or twice I know I'm perfectly capable of learning it and playing it at WM speeds but to be honest, I haven't got much call or desire to do it right now...

Thanks for that. When I first saw the photos, to be honest I immediately wondered how much the divisions in the triforium boxes would need to be opened up to get the sound out, especially the higher pitched pipes, to balance the more advantageously placed Great and Pedal divisions. Knowing Ken's work, I'm sure your mixture is in the best possible hands - I've always felt he is very good at judging levels of power and I'm sure it'll come back just right - not too hard or driven (which is the danger but I know Ken won't fall into that trap) but fitting in just right with everything else. So I'm going to book a nice spa and relax about it...

Hi Adrian Thanks for posting the photos - the organ cases look extremely successful. Just a quick question: I noticed from the shots of Vox Humana the swell mixture is not in place. Where is it? Good luck with it all! Best wishes Colin

Ahh, yes! You're right. Many thanks for point this out - this makes a lot more sense. The Lyme scheme still looks like they're fund raising and doing very well! Good luck to them! I still stand by my comments. The spec you quote has fluework consonant with a German Brustwerk division. The only foreign influence is the Cromorne which, from its nomenclature, indicates it is french (and is the only thing that gives the game away that it's modern). The only issue I'd have with this is that many French treatises on registration indicate a Cromorne should be drawn with a 4' Prestant, which is sadly missing on this division. Maybe an 8' regal or vox humana would have been more appropriate here - drawing it with the 8' flute would help cover any blemishes with tuning and regulation and help bolster the tone - this is common practice on the continent. However, I hope that this organ doesn't have any Open or Stopped Diapasons anywhere!! The Skrabl choir division doesn't have the attempt at historic style of the choir division you cite - the Rohrschalmey is an invention of the neo-baroque period, sesquialtera and larigots don't belong together, there is no 2' rank (the gap in the cornet indicating either the neo-baroque influences of the scheme or a rather more fundamental misunderstanding), while citing the material of the pipes in Metallgedackt was common in the 60s and 70s. http://www.organstops.org/r/Rohrschalmei.html

I see the appeal website lists a choir organ for the 3rd manual - maybe this explains the coupler manual if funds never quite reached the target and they decided to trim the specification? It also lists the Swell Bourdon at 16' pitch. The choir manual spec looks like something from the late 60s or 70s - when did we last see a Rohrschalmey on these shores? Metallgedackt 8 Prestant 4 Traversflote 4 Sesquialtera 2 2/3 + 1 3/5 Larigot 1 1/3 Rohrschalmey 8 Tremulant

I think Atlantic City has a 64' diaphone, full length. I think any others (except Sydney TH) are derived. I know of no full length 64' flue stops - the amount of wind required would be vast!

I think Wayne Marshall needs some lessons in French: "Très modéré" means "very moderate" for the opening chords. It isn't the opening of Transports de Joie. It meant that when the chords returned before the toccata bit they had to go at a completely different speed so the idea of recapitulation and contrast with the fast sections was lost: This was just one instance of many when Dieu Parmi Nous degenerated into a thoughtless jumble. It would have been nice if WM had paid a little more attention to the note values Messiaen took care to notate in the slower sections and the last chord still sounding long after the music finished served no purpose: I thought musicianship was sacrificed at the altar of showing off. I'm surprised WM hasn't grown out of this phase yet - most of us start to leave this phase behind in our teens. I thought the level of musicianship shown in organ solo contrasted dramatically to the inspired and inspiring musicianship shown by the other soloists and orchestra - and to the last organ recital at the RAH, which was a magnificient display of technical ability. Still, I was absolutely delighted that the organ was given such a big profile and enthusiastic coverage at the opening night! Well done BBC!