AJJ Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Are you thinking of this one, by any chance, Alastair? http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D05164 Before you ask, I had forgotten the specification, so it did not influence my own. I once played this instrument for a concert. As far as I can remember, it was quite nice - but not as exciting as the instrument across the road: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N11195 The Methodist Church one is more technically ingenious than tonally anything 'to write home about' whereas the Yates reworking at the Parish Church is something I could really live with. I once spent an interesting half day there with the Rev Ronald Watts (who had the work done in 1958) while researching on Roger yates for an article in OR. This (not far from Kilkhampton): http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N11170 albeit slightly larger on the Great - is what I was thinking of - or maybe the small Willis at St Paul's Cathedral. Something also like this maybe: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=D02754 AJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 "he instrument is to have eleven stops, six of them are at 8p (not counting the Physharmonica) - are you certain that the foundation stops need re-inforcing?!! In any case, I doubt that this would work" (Quote) It would, like it does in nearly all little Cavaillé-Coll, Van Bever, Schyven and Kerkhoff organs. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelDavidson Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Now this is what you call a house organ. 33 stops, 45 ranks, mechanical action. http://www.beckerath.com/gfx/Steve-Ansicht.jpg Ian Crabbe Even more impressive is Fisk's Opus 91 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanCrabbe Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Even more impressive is Fisk's Opus 91 ... Assuming that Fisk's Opus 91 is mechanical action and exceeds 45 ranks then I guess I must concede defeat! These darned Americans! Ian Crabbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barry Williams Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Few can afford such munificence. Indeed, it takes far more skill to voice a handful of ranks in an unfavourable acoustic. Bishops made a number of house organs along these lines: Great: Open Diapason 8' Stopped diapsaon 8' Swell: Gamba 8' Flute (open) 4' Pedal: Bourdon 16' Swell to Pedal Swell to Great A few were of 58/30 compass and the Gamba went all the way down. In a smallish house this would enable rehearsal of much of the repertoire. Barry Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJJ Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Few can afford such munificence. Indeed, it takes far more skill to voice a handful of ranks in an unfavourable acoustic. Bishops made a number of house organs along these lines: Great: Open Diapason 8' Stopped diapsaon 8' Swell: Gamba 8' Flute (open) 4' Pedal: Bourdon 16' Swell to Pedal Swell to Great A few were of 58/30 compass and the Gamba went all the way down. In a smallish house this would enable rehearsal of much of the repertoire. Barry Williams Someone has done something like this fairly recently in the US - 3 manuals - mechanical action - possibly with the Stopped 8' and a contrasting 4' on the Choir with an Oboe 8' on the Swell. 'Can't remember the actual spec. For me at any rate if I had the space and had not recently purchased my 'digital immitation' (which I incidentally find nicely adequate for my needs) I would go for something more like this or the instrument above than anything with resembling a renaissance positif. Maybe it's my age (or repertoire - or both) but in a medium to small room even contrasting/combining 8s and 4s with some sort of expression is better in my opinion than something more 'in your face and close up'. AJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveHarries Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I would go for a box organ (continuo) organ: Manual 1: Stopped Flutes 8 + 4 and Picolo 2 Manual 2: Regal 8 Pedal: Bourdon 8 All ranks of wood, bar the regal which would be mountable on top of the rest of the organ. I would want something that could be transported around. Something like one opf Klop's chest organs in other words as my budget would not be a very big one and neither is the house. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I would go for a box organ (continuo) organ: Manual 1: Stopped Flutes 8 + 4 and Picolo 2 Manual 2: Regal 8 Pedal: Bourdon 8 All ranks of wood, bar the regal which would be mountable on top of the rest of the organ. I would want something that could be transported around. Something like one opf Klop's chest organs in other words as my budget would not be a very big one and neither is the house. Dave The ancient english organ had an open 8'.....8-8-4-2 2/3-2 was the basis. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrabombarde Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Does this qualify as a house organ? http://organ.wicks.com/display_page?p=145&a=5 Ranked 20th in the world, over 11,000 pipes...that guy must have one big living room. Not so much, "there's an organ in my house" as "there's a house around my organ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonadkins Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 While I await (with interest) this scheme, I recall that you mentioned a four-clavier instrument. With this in mind, I offer the following: PEDAL ORGAN Sub Bourdon (Ext.) 32 Contra Bass (W) 16 Violone (M) 16 Salicional (Great) 16 Bourdon 16 Octave (M) 8 Violoncello 8 Flute (Ext.) 8 Fifteenth 4 Mixture (12-17-19) III Contra Bassoon (W; ext.) 32 Grand Bombarde (M) 16 Bassoon 16 Trumpet 8 Shawm 4 Chaire to Pedal Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal Bombarde to Pedal COMBINATIONS Pedal and Great Pistons Coupled Pedal to Swell Pistons Generals on Swell Foot Pistons CHAIRE ORGAN Open Diapason 8 Wald Flute 8 Stopped Diapason 8 Prestant 4 Chimney Flute 4 Quint 2 2/3 Recorder 2 Tierce 1 3/5 Octavin 1 Cimbel (29-33-36) III Tremulant Swell to Chaire Bombarde to Chaire GREAT ORGAN Contra Salicional 16 Quintatön 16 Open Diapason 8 Rohr Flöte 8 Flûte Harmonique 8 Cone Gamba 8 Octave 4 Gemshorn (Conical) 4 Flûte Harmonique 4 Octave Quint 2 2/3 Super Octave 2 Mixture (19-22-26-29) IV Bass Trumpet 16 Posaune 8 Clarion 4 Chaire and Great Exchange Chaire to Great Swell to Great Bombarde to Great SWELL ORGAN Open Diapason 8 Flauto Traverso 8 Viole de Gambe 8 Voix Célestes (CC) 8 Geigen Principal 4 Suabe Flöte 4 Fifteenth 2 Plein-Jeu (22-26-29) III Corno di Bassetto 16 Hautbois 8 Voix Humaine 8 Tremulant Cornopean 8 Clarion 4 Sub Octave Unison Off Octave BOMBARDE ORGAN Montre 8 Flûte à Pavillon 8 Principal 4 Furniture (12-15-19-22-26-29) VI Cornet (1-8-12-15-17: TG) V Cremona 8 Tremulant Bombarde 16 Grand Ophicleide 8 Orchestral Trumpet 8 Orchestral Clarion 4 Sub Octave Apologies if you've already said and I've missed it, but which currently functioning firm would you want to build this marvellous theoretical beast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Apologies if you've already said and I've missed it, but which currently functioning firm would you want to build this marvellous theoretical beast? Today, I do not know, but Danion-Gonzalez would have in the 60's, or Jacquot-Lavergne under marcel Dupré's supervision, like this 1956 example: http://www.cathedrale-rouen.net/larigot/gr...composition.htm Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Today, I do not know, but Danion-Gonzalez would have in the 60's,or Jacquot-Lavergne under marcel Dupré's supervision, like this 1956 example: http://www.cathedrale-rouen.net/larigot/gr...composition.htm Pierre Pierre, When they say 'Pedale expressif' do you think this is a misprint? I seriously doubt whether such a large pedal department in such a case can really be enclosed in a swell-box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Pierre, When they say 'Pedale expressif' do you think this is a misprint? I seriously doubt whether such a large pedal department in such a case can really be enclosed in a swell-box. A mistake it is. The Pedal isn't enclosed. But the Bombarde actually is; this idea dates back from Emile Rupp, and was retained by Marcel Dupré. Just for the sake of it: there are plans to W.......rize this historic organ, as "too néo-classique". Perhaps it should go to the UK in order to be preserved -it is worth it-. Maybe you could help, Pcnd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Apologies if you've already said and I've missed it, but which currently functioning firm would you want to build this marvellous theoretical beast? Our hosts, Klais or possbly Van den Heuvel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 A mistake it is. The Pedal isn't enclosed.But the Bombarde actually is; this idea dates back from Emile Rupp, and was retained by Marcel Dupré. Just for the sake of it: there are plans to W.......rize this historic organ, as "too néo-classique". Perhaps it should go to the UK in order to be preserved -it is worth it-. Maybe you could help, Pcnd? Pierre - I would like to, but can we have their acoustic too, as part of the package, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 "The instrument is to have eleven stops, six of them are at 8p (not counting the Physharmonica) - are you certain that the foundation stops need re-inforcing?!! In any case, I doubt that this would work" (Quote) It would, like it does in nearly all little Cavaillé-Coll, Van Bever, Schyven and Kerkhoff organs. Pierre Mmmm - well, the voicing must be incredible! As I wrote, on my instrument, this just results in 'organum' noises - which are not particularly useful. It also does nothing for the foundations! I was under the impression that Cavaillé-Coll rarely included the Quinte 2 2/3 much on his smaller instruments - there are even a number of larger organs, where he omitted this stop on the G.O.; Nôtre-Dame, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 My house organ design: Lobby Organ 8ft Diapason a Parapluie 4ft Stairflote (fitted into the bannisters) 8ft Cariillion Lounge Organ 8ft Harmonia 8ft Mike Flowers Parphorn Boudoir Organ 2ft Dildette 8ft Alarm Encore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Mmmm - well, the voicing must be incredible! As I wrote, on my instrument, this just results in 'organum' noises - which are not particularly useful. It also does nothing for the foundations! I was under the impression that Cavaillé-Coll rarely included the Quinte 2 2/3 much on his smaller instruments - there are even a number of larger organs, where he omitted this stop on the G.O.; Nôtre-Dame, for example. The 2 2/3' Quinte you will find in small instruments, about 12-18 stops. It is always placed on the Récit (Swell). In the crescendo pedals I studied, this Quint always comes in after all the flues at 16-8-4 pitch, sometimes with the 2' (when present), just before the reeds and the Mixture (when present). The idea is indeed to reinforce the 8' tone, because you cannot ever have enough 8' in any organ. As for Rouen: better have the Jacquot-Lavergne, designed by Marcel Dupré, in an english church, whatever its acoustics, than scrapped. Oder? Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john carter Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Mmmm - well, the voicing must be incredible! As I wrote, on my instrument, this just results in 'organum' noises - which are not particularly useful. It also does nothing for the foundations! I was under the impression that Cavaillé-Coll rarely included the Quinte 2 2/3 much on his smaller instruments - there are even a number of larger organs, where he omitted this stop on the G.O.; Nôtre-Dame, for example. I'd like to draw this together with my other topic about the use of the Twelfth. Pcnd, I assume (always a dangerous thing) that you are saying here that you could not usefully combine the Twelfth on G.O. or Swell of the Minster organ with 8p foundations alone as they do not blend together. I take it, then, that you would only draw the Twelfth after the 2p? Could, however, the Quint on the Positive be used to colour other 8p stops? JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre Lauwers Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 The british Twelfth is something entirely different than the french romantic Quinte; this stops exists since the very beginning, it is a part of the original Diapason chorus in a "Ripieno" sense. Would you draw this romantic Quinte with Montre, Bourdon (8'), Prestant (4') and Doublette (2') on a Cavaillé, or, even worst, on a Van Bever organ, the results would be quite harsh, because neither the 4', the Quint and the 2' are designed to work without far more foundation tone behind. They are simply too big and too loud for that. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 I'd like to draw this together with my other topic about the use of the Twelfth. Pcnd, I assume (always a dangerous thing) that you are saying here that you could not usefully combine the Twelfth on G.O. or Swell of the Minster organ with 8p foundations alone as they do not blend together. I take it, then, that you would only draw the Twelfth after the 2p? Could, however, the Quint on the Positive be used to colour other 8p stops? JC A good question, John. Yes - although I go further, and generally omit the Twelfth(s) in both choruses - they come on with the reeds. The Positive Quint blendes better than it should (considering the duty which it performed prior to 1965). However, there is only one 8p Gedeckt on the Positiove - the other 8p stops are both reeds. Certainly, in neither case is the Twelfth useful with just the foundations - not, that is, unless you are fond of tunes in parallel fifths. Whilst I do not wish to prolong a disagreement - Pierre, I cannot instantly think of any smaller instrument by Cavaillé-Coll which possesses a Quinte on the Récit. I have a directory (with specifications) of many of his instuments - I will have a look later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 The british Twelfth is something entirely different thanthe french romantic Quinte; this stops exists since the very beginning, it is a part of the original Diapason chorus in a "Ripieno" sense. Would you draw this romantic Quinte with Montre, Bourdon (8'), Prestant (4') and Doublette (2') on a Cavaillé, or, even worst, on a Van Bever organ, the results would be quite harsh, because neither the 4', the Quint and the 2' are designed to work without far more foundation tone behind. They are simply too big and too loud for that. Pierre Pierre - I am sorry, I have mis-understood you. I had thought that you had meant the exact opposite of this statement....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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