Clarions

[Jonathan Thorne]

I love a good Clarion - maybe you're the same. Maybe you're not.... we shall see.

Even with a bright chorus and a good 8' chorus reed, there's something about the fire and splash that a good Clarion brings, IMHO they're virtually as essential in a 'final and complete' Full Swell as a 16' reed.

 

Now the point of my topic is that I've noticed a distinct trend to leave these stops out of new schemes. As to reasons, how about some of these:

 

1. Maybe lots of different designers don't like them (unlikely but possible)

2. They're seen as a luxury

3. Builders don't like them, treble reed pipes being pretty difficult to voice really well.

 

I think the first large organ scheme in recent times to leave out the Swell Clarion was the (famous/infamous) Gloucester Cathedral rebuild at the hands of HN&B and Ralph Downes. There, Downes had included (presumably for the same musical purpose) a Tierce Cymbal. Does this cover for the lack of a Clarion ? Like *beep* it does! Frankly that mixture is not a lot of good in the swell chorus either, bear in mind that there is no alternative mixture to top the chorus! The really irritating thing about this Swell is that Downes had the option to retain an existing Father Willis/H&H III Mixture and Clarion but he chose not to.

 

Recently I had a fault here (Holy Trinity Hull) caused by a short between two cotton-covered wires, which resulted in the Great Clarion coming on whenever the Swell to Great was used. Needless to say, with great regret I was forced to cut the wires to the Clarion and managed for several months without it. Now it's back on, I am aware of how much it adds - this is a Great with 16 8 8 4 in chorus reeds. I also have excellent chorus reeds at 8 8 4 currently on the Swell and 16 8 on the Bombarde. Logically, the difference of one little reed rank shouldn't have been that much but it was - particularly in the middle octaves! The splash and fire are back.

 

Would you specify a Clarion in a new Swell (or Great)? Opinions please?

 

The answer to the question for me is yes in my opinion! I would find more use for it on the Swell rather than the Great. The reason being that so much French music does need it. In fact the two most recent 'new' organs in Birmingham have included a Clarion on the Swell and I have also come across one on the Nicholson and Lord organ of St. Luke's church Ironbridge.

 

The Walker at St. Chad's, Birmingham has it's Clarion on the Swell, thus having 16, 8, 8, 4 for the reeds on the Swell in total. The Clarion is made of spotted metal and goes into harmonic trebles around the treble octave. Also around the same place are that the shalots are lined with wax, so to boost up the tone a bit. As it's the only 4ft reed on the organ, naturally it needs to be heard! You can certainly hear it in the bottom octaves on the tutti, so there is not need to have another clarion elsewhere.

 

I can't actually of many organ's being of 2 manual size that would actually suffer without a clarion, only when the organs' get bigger then it becomes more noticeable.

[pcnd5584]

========================

 

The best "full swell" on a vintage Harrison organ, is usually best achieved with just the Mixture and the 16ft and 4ft reeds, plus octave coupler.

 

For some reason, the 8ft just thickens the effect, but doesn't add much in the way of outright organ-power.

 

MM

 

This depends on the Harrison organ in question*. There are, in any case, not that many tonally un-touched vintage H&H organs around. At Crediton, a more standard full Swell is the Open Diapason, Principal, Fifteenth, Mixture and all three trumpets. Since the Swell chorus is somewhat reticent as compared to the GO chorus, this has the effect of giving some much-needed body to the sound. The trumpets are quite bright and, although not the most fiery examples by Harrisons, they are certainly not fat or dull.

 

At the risk of provoking a sleeping dragon (the thread - not any particular contributor), I am still not completely convinced of the value of the high-pitched tierce mixture on the Swell Organ at Gloucester Cathedral. Whilst it does have some impact in the tutti, I would still prefer a Clarion for its more general utility.

 

 

 

* Or, for that matter, an organ by any decent builder. Cecil Clutton used to express similar sentiments to your first sentence above, MM. I believe that he once wrote in The Organ that the best full Swell effect on the organ of Wimborne Minster was something like the 2p, the Mixture, the 16p reed and the octave coupler. Having the privilege of almost daily contact with this superb instrument for about fifteen years, I can assure you that this is simply nonsense. The best full Swell is as set on my channel five, Swell piston eight, which gives the Open Diapason, Principal, Twelfth, Fifteenth, Mixture (22-26-29), Double Trumpet, Hautbois, Cornopean and Clarion. Whilst I am prepared to admit that the Hautbois does not contribute greatly to the effect, it does enable me to make a smoother stop diminuendo (as opposed to a shutter diminuendo). However, in the body of the church, subtracting one or more foundation stop(s) does have an audible effect on the sound.

[Guest Cynic]

This depends on the Harrison organ in question*. There are, in any case, not that many tonally un-touched vintage H&H organs around. At Crediton, a more standard full Swell is the Open Diapason, Principal, Fifteenth, Mixture and all three trumpets. Since the Swell chorus is somewhat reticent as compared to the GO chorus, this has the effect of giving some much-needed body to the sound. The trumpets are quite bright and, although not the most fiery examples by Harrisons, they are certainly not fat or dull.

 

At the risk of provoking a sleeping dragon (the thread - not any particular contributor), I am still not completely convinced of the value of the high-pitched tierce mixture on the Swell Organ at Gloucester Cathedral*. Whilst it does have some impact in the tutti, I would still prefer a Clarion for its more general utility*.

* Or, for that matter, an organ by any decent builder. Cecil Clutton used to express similar sentiments to your first sentence above, MM. I believe that he once wrote in The Organ that the best full Swell effect on the organ of Wimborne Minster was something like of the 2p, the Mixture, the 16p reed and the octave coupler. Having the privilege of almost daily contact with this superb instrument for about fifteen years, I can assure you that this is simply nonsense. The best full Swell is as set on my channel five, Swell piston eight, which gives the Open Diapason, Principal, Twelfth, Fifteenth, Mixture (22-26-29), Double Trumpet, Hautbois, Cornopean and Clarion. Whilst I am prepared to admit that the Hautbois does not contribute greatly to the effect, it does enable me to make a smoother stop diminuendo (as opposed to a shutter diminuendo). However, in the body of the church, subtracting one or more foundation stop(s) does have an audible effect on the sound.

 

 

*I am delighted (and a little surprised) that you agree. You will see (near the beginning of this topic) that this particular case was mentioned.

 

** Don't let Cecil (Sam) Clutton's dictums get to you! I am prepared to concede that he did good work upon occasion and probably 'meant well', but he was also capable of talking/writing total twaddle. Sadly, his position in the UK organ world was so prominent that often his word was accepted as Gospel. Not good.

[pcnd5584]

*I am delighted (and a little surprised) that you agree. You will see (near the beginning of this topic) that this particular case was mentioned.

 

** Don't let Cecil (Sam) Clutton's dictums get to you! I am prepared to concede that he did good work upon occasion and probably 'meant well', but he was also capable of talking/writing total twaddle. Sadly, his position in the UK organ world was so prominent that often his word was accepted as Gospel. Not good.

 

Thank you for your comments, Paul!.

[Frank Fowler]

[

** Don't let Cecil (Sam) Clutton's dictums get to you! I am prepared to concede that he did good work upon occasion and probably 'meant well', but he was also capable of talking/writing total twaddle. Sadly, his position in the UK organ world was so prominent that often his word was accepted as Gospel. Not good.

 

Alas `twas ever thus.

 

FF

[pwhodges]

Don't let Cecil (Sam) Clutton's dictums get to you!

As an aside to the thread, does anyone else have the Abbey recording of Cecil Clutton's 10-stop house organ? Built by Mander as I recall. It was called "An Organ for an Organ Scholar" and had a spoken intro by CC, and then a side each of Francis Jackson and Peter Hurford playing. Mono only as far as I know.

 

Paul

[Guest Cynic]

As an aside to the thread, does anyone else have the Abbey recording of Cecil Clutton's 10-stop house organ? Built by Mander as I recall. It was called "An Organ for an Organ Scholar" and had a spoken intro by CC, and then a side each of Francis Jackson and Peter Hurford playing. Mono only as far as I know.

 

Paul

 

 

I have it here. A weird title, I always thought: 'An Organ for an Organ Scholar' - CC was an Organ Scholar only in the sense that he read books and travelled very widely. The usual use of those words is something quite different.

 

The playing is excellent, though it must have been stressful to get on record because the acoustic and action would reveal every tiny flaw. The tonal design of the organ was pretty good (mind you, I never understood why Clutton was so Krummhorn-obessed) but for the console to look far nicer than the organ itself showed a curiously warped scale of values. This was built around the time of the little two-manual Walker at the RCO - a similar sized organ, blessed with a little more height, maybe, but one that looked so, so much better.

 

The Mander firm would never allow a small organ to look anything like so utilitarian these days. I find it most curious that someone so affluent as CC, with such high standards on subjects like vintage cars and antique clocks, with a family business dealing in antiques and expensive real estate could have as his prize posession a purpose-built organ that looked more like a cross between a rowing machine and cycle rack than a musical instrument.

[AJJ]

The Mander firm would never allow a small organ to look anything like so utilitarian these days. I find it most curious that someone so affluent as CC, with such high standards on subjects like vintage cars and antique clocks, with a family business dealing in antiques and expensive real estate could have as his prize posession a purpose-built organ that looked more like a cross between a rowing machine and cycle rack than a musical instrument.

 

 

Wasn't it something to do with where he had it installed? - space available etc. Does anyone know where it is now?

 

AJJ

[nfortin]

I'm very interested, and rather pleased, to see Frank Fowler's and pcnd's recent comments re. Gloucester. The swell organ is, to my particular tastes, lacking in several respects. There are, within the "design specification" of needing to fit within in the case, severe restrictions due to lack of space. But the swell organ could really do with:-

• an open diapason 8'
  
• a soft manual double (16' lieblich bourdon or the like)
  
• a clarion
  

The existing 16' and 8' reeds would, to my ears, benefit by being a little smoother and less coarse. I would venture to suggest (without expecting widespread agreement) that the 8' Vox Humana is an unncessary and unmusical waste of space when compared with the stops lacking as mentioned above. The soft strings and 8' flute create a magical effect in the Gloucester accoustic, this just emphasises the disappointment that its impossible to then create a warm and satisfying crescendo to a "proper" full swell.

[pcnd5584]

I'm very interested, and rather pleased, to see Frank Fowler's and pcnd's recent comments re. Gloucester. The swell organ is, to my particular tastes, lacking in several respects. There are, within the "design specification" of needing to fit within in the case, severe restrictions due to lack of space. But the swell organ could really do with:-

• an open diapason 8'
  
• a soft manual double (16' lieblich bourdon or the like)
  
• a clarion
  

The existing 16' and 8' reeds would, to my ears, benefit by being a little smoother and less coarse. I would venture to suggest (without expecting widespread agreement) that the 8' Vox Humana is an unncessary and unmusical waste of space when compared with the stops lacking as mentioned above. The soft strings and 8' flute create a magical effect in the Gloucester accoustic, this just emphasises the disappointment that its impossible to then create a warm and satisfying crescendo to a "proper" full swell.

 

Neil, you may be surprised to learn that I actually agree with you. I dislike Swell organs without at least one Open Diapason - this is such a useful register accompanimentally. Another soft manual flue double would also be good, although if space permitted, I would prefer a Contra Salicional - even with the lowest twelve notes Haskelled.

 

I quite like the 8p reed, but I have to agree that the 16p Fagotto is uneven in both timbre and regulation - it is not a good rank. I do like the Vox Humana - this is a wonderful organ on which to play the music of César Franck, for which this register is virtually indispensable. However, I do agree that there are higher priorities - such as the lack of an Open Diapason.

 

There - now you are shocked - no?!

[Vox Humana]

Neil, you may be surprised to learn that I actually agree with you. I dislike Swell organs without at least one Open Diapason - this is such a useful register accompanimentally.

Hear, hear. I was beginning to think I was the only one who regrets the modern fashion for omitting them.