bazuin

"Various pieces of music played on the organ formed a background to the commentary, one of them was an arrangement of the first movement from the Cantata BWV 170 for solo alto, Vergnugte Ruh, beliebte Seelenlust. If you don't know this piece, it's absolutely gorgeous, there's a recording of the 3 Alto Cantatas by Andreas Scholl which I can thoroughy recommend. If anyone's come across an arrangement of this I would love to do it." Gosh, me too. Am currently working on the Winsemius transcription of the middle movement from the double violin concerto, which is quite tricky! But I would love to play Cantata 170... Bazuin

"These sound similar to the problems with his 'magnus opus' organ. Where added to the inconsistencies in the action, the electrics (particularly those that operates the pistons) are very problematic. Like the Oxford organ, it does suffer from position in the church (no fault of Lamm, the church decreed it go there after the fire), but the organ is only just 10 years old and has had action/electric problems from a very early age." Mr Richerby has designed some beautiful cases. Unfortunately their contents have often been catastrophic. The magnum opus instrument in question has to be one of the worst 'serious' organ building projects in Europe in the last 2 dozen years. It simply never worked. His smaller organs suffer other problems, even the continuo organs are notorious for not staying in tune and for being badly designed in terms of access to tune them in the first place. Does anyone know what happened when he became MD of Walker? It was, in any case, a very brief relationship but while it was ongoing, Walkers were happy to list Lammermuir's organs on their own website as previous projects. Bazuin

"That's to say, once you've bought several different organ sets and a fast enough computer to run them, you can change at the flick of a switch, from playing (complete with a mock up of the real console on your LCD panels either side of the keyboard), between a real Silberman, a Cavaille-Coll, a Father Willis...and experience, without leaving your practice room, multiple styles of organ building." No you won't. Because the true nature of any of these organs can only be understood at any meaningful level by experiencing the whole package - the touch (and the way it affects the sound), the console dimensions (have you played a Silbermann console with the widely-spaced pedals and enormously high sharps?), the room etc. I'm curious which repertoire Paul was referring to when he said he required 3 manuals. He plays far more late-romantic repertoire than I do, and I guess he's referring to this. Does the jump from two to 3 manuals really make such a difference? I've never found it so much of a problem that I would invest in a 3rd manual for my own practise instrument. One of the reasons the organ is so un-popular (especially in the UK) in my opinion, is that it, above all other instruments, is so often so inexpressively played. The organ is NOT an in-expressive instrument (contrary to what our critics would have us believe) but it needs to be played espressively. And that has to do with developing touch above all (this is as true for Franck as for Sweelinck). So why do organists so often bore us with their playing (I write this having been bored senseless by a lunch-concert today)? "But in general terms as organists in some corners of the world, we seem so caught up with the accessories of the instrument. " Precisely. It's what Stephen Bicknell (I think) called 'console-itis'. I prefer to cut out the distractions. Give me a pedal piano over a toaster any day. Bazuin

This is fantastic. What a wonderful website. Our colleague Mr Kropf is a true champion of the organ culture, through his tireless work in Neuenfeld, and now is Rostock, and his wonderful musicianship. I will never forget his kindness when I visited the former, showing me every corner of the organ and allowing me to play for some hours. And I still perform his 'Echo Fantasia' often (this year in the UK and in France). Thank you sir! "Beeing a slider soundboard instrument with electropneumatic action and a summit of several historic layers, it reminds me to larger English organs. " Yes absolutely. And I would rejoice were a prestigious English Cathedral to tackle their next rebuild by calling an international symposium and making such a website (and even inviting comments from us!). This is the way forward. The organ seems fascinating, and my instinct would be to re-construct the situation of 1938, (re-instating the free reeds especially). But I'm wondering if I should infer from Karl-Bernhardin's comments that the success of the Sauer project was in some way compromised by circumstances? Why was the winding so weak? Is the danger of losing something unique (even if a curate's egg) not too great to risk trying to add yet another layer to such a heady mix? I am fascinated and am sorry that my travels this year won't include Rostock. Looking forward to this thread developing and to Karl-Bernhardin telling more of the story. Greetings Bazuin

This issue is very complicated. The first recorded use of the heel is in the method of Kittel. People say that because Kittel 'studied' with Bach (in fact his contact with Bach was minimal) that this "proves" that Bach used heels. I say "no". It must also be stressed that, on historic organs it is not just physically difficult to play with heels, but, moreover, hard to make a good sound, and to control that sound. In general, pedal pipes take longer to speak, so they need to be played more legato, whether you want it to sound legato or not. On the other hand the character of the pedal playing varies dramatically whether it's a continuo line, a cantus firmus line, or a polyphonic line. In 565 the pedal part plays plays no cantus firmus but it does play examples of the other two. "Of one thing I am certain. The Willis/Wesley pedalboard has not been one of English organ building's most enduring gifts to organ performance." Of course, because it's the only pedal board which promotes EQUALITY between the toe and the heel, which is unheard of outside the UK until the dogmas of Dupre and Germani. Playing all toes should be the default way of playing Bach, but should be seen within the broader aesthetic of the performance. If your organ is a Norman and Beard with a slow penumatic action, take you Novello edition, play with your heels and open the box gradually.... your organ, and the music will sound better. Greetings Bazuin

Regarding John Scott's BWV 543: "The attempts to provide life ends up with instable tempi, and the fugue is still two times too fast." I was astonished at the, for me beautiful, expression in the Prelude, I would never have associated this kind of playing with John Scott. I agree about the fugue - Bach could have written 'Allegro', he didn't. "The registration is extremely well conceived, with some variations, and avoiding to use mixtures all the time. This goes in an interesting direction." I would like Pierre to publish his ideas about Bach registrations, because he obviously has a completely different idea about the use of the middle-German baroque organ, and his ideas stem from first-hand experiences! Can you refer us to some articles, Pierre? I am very interested to read about your ideas! "But I would prefer another organ for Bach. They have the "Saunders" now in the U.S. (the Casparini copy), they should use it first would any attempt to a reference interpretation be made in Bach." I understand your sentiment, but does the Casparini copy disqualify the obviously Northern German-leaning New York T and B as a valid Bach organ? I don't think so. Listening to the mixtures in the Fugue reminded me of the (for me) strange idea of Harald Vogel that Buxtehude et al used reeds in polyphony and mixtures in non-polyphony. Here I think the mixtures aid the polyphony, despite the Schnitger-style organ. Great film, gorgeous organ! Bazuin

Fantastic BWV 582 played by Olli Porthan (much-admired Professor of Organ at the Sibelius Academy in Helsinki) on the magnum opus of his brother, Martti Porthan in the church of Kotka in South East Finland. I played a concert on this organ in 02 - it is a copy of the famous Freiberg Silbermann (note the clever re-interpretation of the Freiberg case to match the surroundings of the typically late-19th century Scandinavian church). The organ is a class act, it even feels like the real thing. Bazuin

I don't know why the Harrison was removed from the Barony, it had a good reputation I think. As far as I know it was the RCO's examining organ in Scotland in times gone past. I have played one organ of Koegler, in Helsinki - the first organ in Europe to be tuned to Bradley Lehmann's Bach temperament. The quality is exceptional, as you would expect with anything in which Bernhardt Edskes is involved. The Glasgow organ will be one of, perhaps, the half a dozen most important new organs built in the UK since the war. It will provide a teaching facility for RSAMD which will make it the envy of the other UK Conservatories. "Why a "baroque" instrument?" I wish the description was more specific, the Helsinki instrument was clearly central-German influenced but with some North German touches (a Dulzian as the reed on the second manual). It will be a stunning, thought-provoking organ which will allow the invitation of players who otherwise wouldn't be invited in the UK, as well as providing a world-class teaching facility. And the baroque repertoire from any part of Europe isn't catered for in Glasgow. At all. This is going to be a real head-turner, folks. Greetings Bazuin

I don't think this has been announced here until now. http://www.strath.ac.uk/music/baronyorganproject/ 40 stops of Koegler heading to the West of Scotland is very exciting indeed! Greetings Bazuin

"Look at the distance between the tails of the highest keyboard and the start of the jambs. Ouch! It's surprisingly uncomfortable to manipulate stops on this console, which otherwise looks comfortable and efficient. A shame on what is otherwise a lovely, musical and sensitively designed organ." Having played this organ quite a bit I wonder if the problem isn't actually something slightly different. For me, rather than the stop jambs being too far back, it's the manuals which are too far forward. Assuming a classical organ console (this is a staunchly neo-Scanda-classical organ but the lack of any stop controls suggests the root of its conception) the toe should be able to hang in a straight vertical line under the knee and play just in front of the sharps. The combination here of manuals which are too far forward, an RCO pedal-board (strange choice in the circumstances) and, if I remember rightly, keyboards which are slightly too low compared to the top of the pedal board make this, for my money, quite uncomfortable to play. "For a start, the distant ones have their faces effectively turned away from you so you can't read them without leaning over and peering down. Those on the right hand side cannot be drawn with the left hand, and vice versa!" ...which of course wasn't the intention. I take Cynic's point though, and my instinct would suggest that the terraced console, because of its low profile, could be applied far more in the UK for situations where the organist would ideally have direct lines of sight to the conductor. Perhaps the answer to the problem lies in the American organ building of the 19th century where organ builders such as the Hooks put the stop labels at a 45 degree angle to the stop knob making them easy to read even from a distance. I think they only did this on larger organs though. Greetings Bazuin

"I did: it is a really outstanding organ." I think it WAS a fantastic organ. It is not at all well preserved (rather exceptionally in NL). The Garrels style (closer to Arp Schnitger than almost any of the other Schnitger students) is much better preserved in the organs of Anloo (when he was young) and Purmerend (when he was much older, it still has all its original reeds, unlike Maasluis). Unlike many other organs in NL, the later additions don't really complement the earlier material. The case is utterly fabulous. Nonetheless, I'm always interested to read Pierre's thoughts, what does he like about it? Greetings Bazuin

"A simple example would be the poor vexed soul worried that Klais had “no experience whatever” with N&B organs. It may be helpful to look up the firm used on recent N&B projects, try Auckland Town Hall for example." I apologise for missing the Auckland example but stand by the broader point, which is roughly similar to that of DW's. Klais is a curious choice for such a project and many of us (for different reasons, I have no professional axe to grind whatever!) would be very interested were you to expand on your 'thorough and critical evaluation' for the benefit of those whose comments from the outside looking in may otherwise be seen as glib. You were obviously impressed by what you saw in Auckland, tell us something about it! Why is it so impressive? Is the Norman and Beard aesthetic preserved, or re-created or is it, as DW suggests a new Klais organ? "Neither firm was chosen on the basis of cheapness, or because anyone was intoxicated by a brilliant PR machine, or because the client (me!) or consultants were clueless." Regarding the latter, I would not suggest such a thing. If cost had nothing to do with the scenario, please tell us why Skrabl impressed you so much? Aesthetically they are building in a neo-classical style reminiscent (sometimes even visually) of the German speaking world of the middle 1970s, for example with ultra-steady winding. Again, the choice is curious, please tell us more! Given that Skrabl make such a feature of their low prices in their own PR, you have to concede that the suggestion is bound to be made! I for one am generally interested to hear about why these builders were chosen. Share some of your enthusiasm with us! No-one here (I hope) wishes your projects anything but success. Bazuin

"But is it something to write on a public place about a living builder ?" But my criticism is of his philosophy and the resulting organs, not a personal criticism of the man himself. Even I have to admire his ability to win contracts and keep the Klais brand as successful as he has, even though I don't like the organs, or the rationale behind them. Public Criticism, even subjective criticism, is surely healthy, and is normal in the discussion of any other 'product' or indeed art form. I could (perhaps wish I did) have written this. But someone far greater than I did. And published it on an internet forum: http://listserv.albany.edu:8080/cgi-bin/wa...=R3894&I=-3 "There are one or two very good consultants out there (who can also help sort out difficult clients for the builder); there are some consultants whose benefit to a project is questionable." Unfortunately almost no-one in the UK could match the author of the above, as you, and DW, and our hosts know from personal experience. "...and made all their major components, like pipes, soundboards and actions, of their organs in-house. It would only be in the third and fourth rank builders where firms would rely on trade suppliers for pipes, soundboards, etc. This is not the case today, where new organs are built less frequently and there is more widespread use of trade suppliers, like P&S, even by some well-respected names. This isn't unique to the UK - it's just as common on the continent and USA." Sure. But the fact of the best builders making everything bar the blower and the console gadgetry in house, and the rest buying in pipes, actions, cases, you name it, is as true today as it was then, even if far fewer organs are being commissioned. In fact you could perhaps say it is the most telling difference between the best and the rest. Consider this list: Flentrop (NL), Van Eeken (NL), Verschueren (NL), Kögler (Austria), Porthan (Finland), Quoirin (FR), Ahrend (D), Fritts (USA), Pasi (USA), Richards Fowkes (USA) ...to name just 10. Can you think of an organ builder anywhere, building at anything like the level of these guys and subcontracting any significant part of the organ? Bazuin

"And there m'Lud, I rest me case - no consultant, the tonal scheme, architectural and technical designs were entirely without outside interference." I know better than to criticise consultants here, people throw stones. I think this point is very important. The best way to build an organ is surely always to commission it from a builder you trust, and trust them to build the best organ for the space. "Such a pity that that milieu didn't obtain when Lincoln Cathedral was done." Quite. "I learned quite much from Hans-Gerd Klais, especially about romantic organs." Hans Gerd Klais took the Klais style in a certain direction, this style peaked around 1975 with organs in Ingolstadt and Trier. [sentence deleted by moderator.] Bazuin

"As for the british builders, the potential is there -see the numbers of used organs exported from Britain to Europe-. The victorian style fits extremely well in the today's trends in Europe." Dare I suggest that if anyone in the UK could build with the artistic and stylistic sense of confidence and quality which their (better) Victorian predecessors did, then we wouldn't be having this discussion? "Given the growing popularity of English cathedral music in some areas of northern Europe, it is surprising that English builders are not more active there." I refer the right honourable gentleman to the comment I made a moment ago. That said, there are hints of British builders starting to take a serious interest in the Victorian style at the expense of the 'pan-European stoplist style'. Willis in Florence is an interesting example, as is Colin's organ in Twyford. Perhaps most interesing is Harrison's project in Glasgow which involves reconstructing in every detail a Father Willis organ 'improved' by Willis III. This includes a new action including Barker machine (made in house), and a new console re-creating in detail, and from scratch the Willis I original (including trigger swell). This level of historically-aware organ building will surely raise interest in the British product elsewhere. "The two firms were chosen after a lengthy tendering process from British and other European builders. We have been relatively insulated from exchange rate changes through contractual agreements." With the greatest of respect, Skrabl get their contracts because they are remarkably cheap. This due to their location and the economic advantages of working there. Their operation is enormous and allows them abnormally quick delivery times. Klais get contracts because they do their PR well. Please note that every one of their near-identical loud neo-modernist organs gets maximum coverage in the organ press, even in the UK. It would be interesting to know why, from a artistic standpoint they qualify to do anything to a Norman and Beard organ, a style with which they have no experience whatever. (No, Bath doesn't count, it's a new organ with some old pipes, it sounds and behaves like a Klais). Greetings Bazuin

"But this is also an aesthetic choice, as is, for instance, the decision to print using modern layout rather than original C clefs, etc - these things may affect our perception of the music. And the idea that there is necessarily a unique text which one can aim to reproduce is subject to quite strong criticism in some places." I would struggle to imagine a way in which choice of clef would influence interpretation. Reaching a unique text in terms of Bach or Buxtehude is of course impossible, hence my carefully chosen "as reliably as the sources will allow". Bazuin

Cynic's explanation of training your brain with well-planned fingerings is spot-on. "I was interested to find, for instance, that when Nicholas Danby told me I had to buy the Hansen edition of Buxtehude, the (now) much decried Peeters I was already used to was actually a more recent edition!" The Hansen edition was a good one for its time. Whether an edition is more recent or not is irrelevant if it doesn't represent the current state of source-research. I'm quite sure that if Nicholas Danby were still with us he would tell his students to use Broude because Michael Bellotti's edition is universally considered to be the most accurate representation of the sources AND because all the other possibilities from other sources are notated. "I learned all my Bach between the ages of 12 and 18 (i.e. 40 or so years ago) and used the Novello edition, some of it never revised since the days of Bridge and Higgs. So what?! I never took any notice of the registration hints anyway. I always assumed that the phrasing was editorial - and by and large, whichever edition you buy, it still is! Since my Bach-learning days I should imagine we have all been told at least four times that we should change to the latest version. Is Barenreiter now considered the best? Not for long, you can be sure." But the Novello and NBA have completely different purposes which you've confused. Novello, like Widor/Schweitzer and Straube are editions interpreted to represent the aesthetics of a particular period of time and place (mostly late 19th and early 20th century). The NBA, like the Budapest edition (which I use) and the American edition of Quentin Faulkner etc are Urtext editions, ie presenting the text as reliably as the sources will allow. The differences between them relate mostly to the choice of sources use. It is impossible to ignore entirely (however hard you try) the phrasing and tempo marks of an interpretative editor like Bridge, Straube etc. Frankly, were I to play an English Romantic organ, I would embrace them and the registration marks as the organ would probably sound better. Both kinds of edition have their place, it's our job to know when to use the right one. Arguably the best Bach edition is the first Peters edition edited by Mr Grieppenkerl in the time of Mendelssohn. Bach had been dead all of 80 years, the 'Bach tradition' was far more alive than we can imagine now. The text is reliable and the prefaces provide very reliable tempo indications which clearly relate to the baroque sources (Quantz etc). In terms of Franck and Vierne of course, one can make an objective decision about a 'correct' text. A good example is the new Vierne edition by David Sanger hinted at by Cynic which seems to find a very good way through the vagaries of Vierne's texts. Greetings Bazuin

"I have to say I think the Ad Nos is simply magnificent. Superb organist and magnificent organ which is perfect for the music. Played from memory and hand-registered throughout... " Un-bel-iev-able. This guy is 21!! I'd like to see Cameron Carpenter do that... Bazuin

Isn't a worrying state of affairs when Liverpool Cathedral has announced their intention to spend so much money on the organ, and it seems impossible to even assertain what the mixture compositions were a generation ago!? The instrument's historic significance seems only to be fully understood by our excellent Belgian colleague! "We have the original designs and I suspect that it would bear little resemblance to what might be being discussed" If the Echo is seriously being contemplated, why consider any other scheme than that proposed at the organ's conception? (was this extraordinary division really built and then bombed in the railway siding?) Could anyone think of a more wonderful Echo division? I would be delighted should David Wyld dig into the Willis archives and answer the mixture questions definitively. "Bach fugues with reeds can sound so tiresome; without Mixtures they can sound so dull." On many organs Bach fugues sound dull no matter how you play them. Play something else, or play a different organ. But, please, no more organs with only (too) high quint mixtures, with no variety, no tierces, no 5 1/3 quints. The dogmas of the neo-baroque have died very very hard in Britain. Bazuin

I've never been to Houston but if I were to go I would want to see: The big Fisk in Cavaillé-Coll style at Rice University (Clyde Holloway's organ): http://www.cbfisk.com/do/DisplayInstrument/instId/109 The Noack organ at Christ the King Church in the style of Hildebrandt and Silbermann: http://www.noackorgan.com/instruments/opus/opus_128.html and I'd pop to the brand new RC Cathedral of the Sacred Heart where the big Pasi will be installed. Paul Fritts is also building a 50-stop organ in a Presyterian church there but it won't be ready for your visit I don't think. Good luck with your presentations and have fun. Bazuin

Bazuin, were you there a.m.? No pm, women's army and timber corps service, spectacular stuff. "I forget the exact details of the cental organ pipes but there really isn't any difference between them and those of the main organ. One of the Principal pipes actually has the signature of Henry III on it. I must say I am surprised you don't think the mixture works well. What was it that didn't sound right? It is always going to sound 'brilliant', especially in the treble as it is VI ranks but when I have heard it down the building I thought it fitted in very well." The problem is that it isn't meant to be heard down the building, it's meant to drive the singing in the central space. I was sitting directly opposite and found the mixture pretty overbearing. Because the the pipes are located fairly low (I think there's a window directly above?) the effect is strangely intimate to the point where the chancel organ disappears. What I also thought was funny was Ian Tracey's way of accompanying the hymns, often very staccato. In the past, pre-central space organ, I understood why he did it. But with the central space organ in your right ear it's very off-putting. Apologies to Ian Tracey, of whom I am an enormous fan. Bazuin

I was co-incidentally at Liverpool last Sunday. The organ is just incredible. Can someone please tell us definitively what is going to be done? It would be nice to think that the original Dulcianas would be put back on the Choir instead of the silly neo-baroquery. I doubt it though. Sunday was the first time I had heard the Central Space organ. I understand that this was mostly done with second hand Willis II pipes, again can somebody confirm? The mixture especially sounds dead wrong to me. All inside information gratefully received! Bazuin

Tempo in Franck is a fascinating subject, made rather thorny by the publication of Franck's intended tempo markings for the Six Pieces in the new-ish biography by Joel-Marie Faucquet (I think that's his name). These tempi, as most board-ers will know, are quicker than we are (or were) used to hearing these pieces. Joris Verdin is perhaps the pre-eminent modern scholar on all things early-French-Romantic - he adopts the Faucqet tempi in their entirety. Listen to his recording in Rouen, it's more interesting than convicing for my money. JV always says that the pianists in his organ class in Antwerp play in these quicker tempi without his (JV's) prompting and that Franck wouldn't have made such a tempo distinction between organ and piano playing. I would say, "but who says the pianists are right??". Joris V. also talks a lot about the myth of the Frank tradition as passed on through Tournemire who he sees as a break in the tradition rather than a continuation, and from whom the idea of the 'pere angelique' seems to have eminanted. I don't believe there is any relation at all between Franck and the stringendo of the German Romantic tradition. The end of Final for me gets freer if not significantly quicker. The recording I like is Jeanne Demessieux from her complete Franck cycle. It is quick but less chaotic than Joris Verdin's recording. Greetings Bazuin

"Thank you for this link!! Tom Murray's performance of these canonic studies and the sketches are superb - there's a fine recording of his by JAV on the Schoenstein at Lincoln, Nebraska - well worth having! This music is much, much harder to play than it sounds. To play it with this level of control and to make it sound so effortless and musical is a major feat of organ playing. I play this piece so know exactly what he's doing and Tom Murray's performance still leaves me in wondrous admiration." Yes, absolutely. But you have to acknowledge the very very idiosyncratic juxtaposition of aesthetics which it (and the Lincoln, Nebraska CD) presents. This is Schumann according to the tastes of the 1920s. Early romantic piano music 'orchestrated' using ULTRA-late romantic playing techniques and sound world. Its as far from Schumann as Guillou is from Franck. Which isn't to say it isn't marvellous... Bazuin

Afsluiter is a dutch term for a shut-off valve. On a large Dutch organ each division usually has an afsluiter meaning that you can engage or disengage an entire division. It has no real practical application in my experience. I would be interested whether Dick Sanderman for example could add any comment here. The ventil was invented by Cavaillé-Coll for his divided windchests, meaning that the reeds and upperwork can be prepared (ie the stops are drawn) but are only activated by the depression of the relevant pedal (the so-called 'appel'). Its practical application is considerable, look at any French symphonic organ score. Greetings Bazuin