Philip

http://www.priory.org.uk/cgi-bin/ukstore/u...special%20offer! Details for the next in the series, with Andrew Millington at Exeter, have just appeared on the Priory website. Looks quite a good programme to me, although I have a feeling one or two items have already featured elsewhere in the series.

I like to think that hymns is one thing I can do well, so here goes... On choice of hymn books, we currently use a version of HON and I don't like it at all. The traditional hymns mostly retain musical integrity but they have messed with the words to politically correct them which I dislike when it's done how they do it. I think inclusive language is a fine principal but has to be balanced with a respect for poetry and with some judgement as to what becomes ridiculous (e.g. changing every 'he' in 'He would valiant be') - but some examples of inclusive language can work well (e.g. Brother, sister, let me serve you). My other major problem is with the arrangements of many of the modern hymns. To think that they claim they have renowned musicians doing these beggars belief - the harmonic progressions in many are at best clumsy and at worst unfathomable. I frequently find myself altering the harmonies to something which makes musical sense - but judging by your post above that is something you'd be capable of doing. When you're accompanying unison hymns, take carte-blanche to do this. I'd keep HON simply for its range of content (it doesn't leave much out) but take a lot of it with a large pinch of salt. I like Common Praise - a good balance of hymns including many of the better more recent hymns (e.g. Coe Fen, Guiting Power, Corvedale, Be still, Shine Jesus Shine - yes I am serious!), sensitive editing of words, and generally good musical intergrity. Ancient and Modern New Standard, its predecessor, I don't rate. I think you'll struggle to find copies of the one before that - Ancient and Modern Revised - but that is good if a little outdated in places nowadays. New English Hymnal is also good and a staple of many Cathedrals, but I've never really worked with it all that much. If you wish to start playing at churches, hymns are essential so definitely worth looking at. Posters above have covered the big stretches point - the pedal should be taking the bass notes and the the hands can then cover the other parts as you find comfortable (but a manuals only verse here and there can be effective). There are some hymns which I wouldn't dare play without pedals though - Repton and Wolvercote spring to mind because there are too many notes to play the original versions on manuals only (although there is a manuals arrangement of Repton in Common Praise). There is a difference between playing hymns through and actually accompanying them. When accompanying, important things to consider as I think of them: 1) Tempo - firstly, to pick a sensible one and stick to it. I'm not a fan of hymns which dash along at break-neck speed, but I don't like them too ponderous either. Sometimes the words or the sense of the hymn can dictate the tempo - some are more solemn and benefit from going slower (e.g. Rock of Ages which is four-square but the words don't demand it to bounce along). Many recommend that you sing along so that you know that the tempo is reasonable and that you can fit the words in comfortably. Also, maintain the tempo in the pauses between verses - they shouldn't just be random pauses. This is quite difficult to explain and perhaps someone can do a better job than me - but essentially you carry on counting as the verse finishes and come in at the appropriate place - so if there is an upbeat you'll start on the last beat of the bar, if not, start on the first beat, and so on. Likewise, the number of beats will vary depending upon the time signature. 2) Introduction - should be at the speed at which you intend to play the rest of the hymn. Organists vary what they do for introductions, and I'm not always consistent. The first line is normally best as it reminds people how the tune goes and once they hear that they will find the rest easier to pick up. I sometimes do first then last line so it sounds better musically. Some (e.g. Repton again) can IMO only be done by playing the end of the verse though. Its by no means an exact science. 3) Phrasing - try to let your playing reflect how the words flow. The classic is 'The Lord's my shepherd' (Crimond) - playing each line of the first verse as an individual phrase makes no sense whatsoever if you look at the words. Ancient and Modern Revised used to mark carry-throughs between lines which can be helpful, or you can mark them in if you find it helps. Likewise, a brief release at a comma (but not so much as to disrupt the tempo) helps emphasise the phrasing of the words. 4) Registration - once you have conquered the above you can start to think about varying registration. When done well, this can turn an adequate accompaniment into an excellent one and bring hymns to life. I normally play introductions on manuals only and will normally increase the volume when the hymn actually starts to give a clear signal that the hymn itself has started. Then it is a case of interpreting the words as you see fit, within the limits of the stops and registration aids you have available. Manuals only verse can be very effective, as mentioned above. Sometimes this can veer towards being a little cheesy, but that has never put me off. But I would say don't overdo this aspect until you have done the first three parts to your satisfaction. I also like last-verse reharmonisations - although I know many don't. If this interests you, you can find books to help or you can improvise them if you have a good command of harmony. Rawsthorne's book (published by Mayhew) is a good starting point. Once again, this is something only to be done when you're comfortable with the points above though. As to which hymns to practise, I'd guess hymns which are more 'four-square' will generally be easier at first. Hymns in triple time always seem to have slightly more intricate moving parts in the centre, so Hereford which you mention above isn't that straightforward. Some hymns are quite difficult to play - I always find Wolvercote particularly tricky because there is so much going on with all the moving parts in the middle. If you find you can't do something, I'd try to find something easier and then come back - the more experience you get the easier it will become overall. I've often found that with organ pieces I've aspired to play that if I come back in six or twelve months they are somehow nowhere near as difficult as they were when I first looked at them. Also, go and listen to other organists playing hymns. Particularly in Cathedrals and more eminent Parish Churches, I should hope that the hymns will be accompanied well and you can hear how they are done and pick up ideas. I still do this, not just with hymns, but with all elements of service accompaniment. I really enjoy playing hymns, and I think to lead worship in this way is a privilege because you are facilitating other people to worship. If you do find a church, I hope you find one where they sing well, because that always make it a much better experience for all concerned. I hope thats something in the realm of what you were after!

I don't know much of Parry's stuff outside of church music (but then how many people do?). However, I enjoy a lot of his choral music. In addition to 'I was glad' and 'Blest pair', 'Hear my words, ye people' is superb even if it is as long as those first two put together. The choral parts look to me to be quite easy (the two solos aside) although the organ part is certainly not straightforward. I heard it at St Marys, Nottingham on the Sunday evening just gone, twas very enjoyable. I think Jerusalem is a fine tune and like Holst's Thaxted, is let down for me as a hymn by the words which have very little relevance to a church service in my eyes. As regards hymn tunes, 'Repton' is one of my absolute favourites and must be well-known by many - popular at weddings and funerals. 'Rustington' is very fine although has quite a large range - it works well to 'Through the night of doubt and sorrow', and not forgetting 'Laudate Dominum' for 'O praise ye the Lord', which of course itself comes from the end of Hear my words. Repton and Jerusalem will be widely known, even by non-churchgoers and 'I was glad' must be known by a fair proportion, and all are fine pieces of music. Blest pair seems to crop up regularly among amateur choral societies and has featured several times at the Last Night of the Proms. Does the lack of awareness of Parry's other music (especially his non-church music) mean that it is not as good by comparison, or has he suffered as Stanford and Howells have in being pigeon-holed as a composer only of church music?

How about MacMillan? Chilcott is a good shout, as is Gabriel Jackson. Please don't let my posts above suggest that I didn't enjoy the service or the occasion (and certainly from a musical perspective). Like the rest of the occasion, the music was very well put together and performed and achieved exactly what it was supposed to.

Of course it wasn't for me, I realise that. I was merely expressing an opinion (and from a Rutter fan). I was hoping we would get something a bit more original, which didn't sound so much like almost every other piece he's written. He has a formula that works - and I enjoy a lot of his music - but I suppose I hoped that as it was a special occasion and a special commission that he might write something a bit distinguishable. If not, why not just perform one of the many perfectly good pieces he's already written, many of which can fit perfectly well into the context of a wedding service? Personally, the only reason I would look at that piece again would be if it was requested or for the novelty of 'it was the piece they had at the royal wedding'. Of course being perfectly listenable is a worthy achievement...but I felt Mr Rutter could perhaps have done something more.

Well done to all involved for a good show. The Rutter left me a bit disappointed, as it was not original at all...its perfectly listenable stuff, and will probably attract some fans, but it won't inspire many choristers I suspect and the Rutter haters will be out in force... The Mealor was nice and a new discovery. I expect it will promote an interest in his music as a whole. I'd not put it above the Durufle, which is always the challenge when you're competing with a very well-known setting of the same text.

Much of it isn't that surprising I guess, but Whitlock isn't a name I would have expected to feature. The Elgar Sonata I would have expected. It will certainly be a treat for Parry fans (of which I am mostly one, certainly in terms of his choral music), with I was glad, Split pair, Jerusalem and the Processional. The Walton should be good as well - wonder if I'll need to think about learning that soon...! Don't see what's wrong with Love Divine to Blaenwern myself. If it encourages people to choose it above 'Give me despair/joy' and 'All things bright and beautiful' then all the better. At the end of the day they were bound to choose well-known stuff unless they were commissioning. The Rutter commission will be interesting. Will he go for the somewhat populist style of so much of his music or will it be a bit different? If its not tricky, I'm sure it will find its way into the repertoire of many choirs. Altogether, looks like we'll have a lot of music to enjoy. Perhaps the BBC might offer us a function (via red button, perhaps) to switch the commentary off.

Back now after a rather long day with 3 services and countless alleluias (as well as a decent amount of alcohol consumed - at lunch and after Evensong). Its always a big ask for us doing fully sung services at 6am, 10am and 6.30pm - discussion in the pub tonight considered whether a full Choral Evensong is a good idea in this context. That said, Brewer in D and Stanford Ye Choirs held together fairly well (and with only 14 singers) and to pick up the Bairstow Psalm 114 setting only in the pre-service rehearsal after 12 months and for it to work was fairly impressive. I was lazy with my practice so did 'the Widor' for the evening - a bit sloppy in places but everyone (well, the 25 or so present) seemed to enjoy it. I did the Mushel Toccata this morning (for the first time) which was better and gave me a chance to use the Zimbelstern. It seemed to be well-received.

Morning all - off to the Dawn Mass shortly (have to say I'm glad it doesn't last 2 1/2 hours though - and also rather glad in a way I don't have to play a voluntary!). Happy Easter to everyone.

Thanks to contributors above for their most interesting thoughts. I suppose another area in which my tastes have moved is in hymns (and worship generally). When I was growing up I enjoyed Kendrick and a lot of the other modern-style songs (they use 'Songs of Fellowship') and even helped to lead what our church called 'informal' worship, as well as going to Spring Harvest half a dozen times. Having moved to University and now being at a church which solely uses the organ, my tastes have very much switched towards the traditional (I don't dislike some modern 'songs' - 'Be still' for example - but I couldn't live on them and many I find uninspiring). By that final visit to Spring Harvest I began to realise that my heart wasn't quite in it anymore. When I was growing up, the whole idea of Choral Evensong and of the sheer lack of participation would have been quite alien to my idea of church, but gradually I've grown to love it and to appreciate it for what it is and I now actively seek to take in services when I can - if I'm in a Cathedral city I will check to see what is on that evening. I find our Parish Eucharist to be a bit busy and noisy and now think that Evensong at a Cathedral is probably about as good as Anglican worship gets. I realise some probably won't agree, but there is such a rich variety of music and to hear it well sung in some of the fabulous buildings this country possesses I find very special and is certainly something we musn't lose. I suppose a growing appreciation of Howells (for example) is linked in to this somewhat.

In an attempt to spark off some debate... I wonder how many of us find there are pieces or even composers which/whom we can't seem to understand or enjoy at all until there is a sudden moment where things click into place and it all makes sense. For example, some while ago I wrote on this board something (which I think sounds a bit silly now) about how all Howells music sounds the same. The Gloucester Service previously did absolutely nothing for me (as compared to the St Paul's which I found had instant appeal) but I heard it live again towards the end of last year and I found for some reason that I loved it and now think its absolutely marvellous. I think perhaps of Howells writing for the Cathedral which was his home, the one he loved, and something of that seems to come through in the music. Yet there are still Howells pieces that I can't work out - 'Like as the hart' seems to be among his most popular but I've still to find inspiration from it. I love the Collegium Regale Te Deum which is superb but the Jubilate does nothing for me. Regardless, I seem to be turning into something of a Howells fan! I'm trying to think of parallels in the world of organ music, but personally I can't right now. Doubtless there are works that have instant appeal but others that probably reward more repeated listening. So, what music (choral or organ) do contributors find they have similar experiences with of things suddenly clicking into place, and is there a rationale behind why this happens?

We haven't got any details of the actual music yet, but http://www.officialroyalwedding2011.org/bl...stminster-Abbey gives a list of performers. No surprise to see some brass etc as well as the choir and organ. Its interesting to note the line about their choices including specially-commissioned pieces. Lets hope that we get something which choirs up and down the country might be able to use and might become part of the repertoire. I wonder how much couples in future will be influenced by the music at the Royal Wedding?

Sorry if I've confused the issue - in my edition the big notes stop at the first note of the fourth to last bar (bottom D) and there are some extra notes but they are small notes - probably quite similar to those in the edition you link to. It seems very odd to me to have that bottom D and then just come in with three extra bars which bear little relation to what has gone before. Ah well... Btw, I enjoyed(?!!) the third of MM's links - there is a Widor 5 version uploaded by the same chap too!

I bought this piece ages ago and have had a couple of play-throughs but have never given it a public outing. Its well within my grasp - its not that difficult and I'd have thought it should be well-received by the congregation. The bit that puts off is the ending. I have the Novello edition (I think - would have to check in church) which is a reprint and some small notes have been added to the end (the large notes end on a pretty feeble pp) but I've never made much sense of it. Is there a recognised way to give this piece a satisfying ending?

Thank you Colin for steering the discussion in this direction. I suppose part of the thrust behind my original post was about getting to know how to get the best out of an instrument. Of course this can rarely be done in a short space of time. I'd be interested to hear further thoughts from people about how they explore instruments and try to work out good combinations etc. I'm delighted with the way this topic has sparked some interest and discussion so far.

Thanks for all the replies so far...interesting stories of previous incidents most welcome!

A purely hypothetical question here - and I'm hoping as always to draw on the experiences of members who have played much more extensively and on many more instruments than myself. You turn up in an English cathedral with a visiting choir to play for an Evensong (for example). You have never played the organ before, although you know the music well, and the repertoire is a relatively substantial setting requiring numerous registration changes (a Stanford, Dyson or Howells, perhaps). You haven't had time to arrange a visit beforehand to practice or familiarise with the instrument, so you arrive with about half an hour to spare before the choir are due to rehearse. How do you spend that half-hour getting to know the instrument? Is it just a matter of looking at the pre-set registrations used by the incumbent organists and pushing some pistons or is there a more methodical way? On the occasions I've been presented with an unfamiliar instrument (not in a Cathedral, I hasten to add) I've tended to dive straight in but is there a better way? I suppose the question could equally well apply to giving recitals too.

http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/music/s...d&refType=1 Do I take it that this is the version to which the above posts refer?

http://www.newcollegechoir.com/webcasts.htm Incidentally, this is the voluntary for the webcast they have just added here. Will pcnd change his opinion?

Spec for reference: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N08469 As with many major institutions, there are two aspects to the organ's use - choral services in the choir and big services in the nave. For the former, there aren't really any issues in terms of projection - the sound is travelling round a corner (with the console facing the south aisle of the nave next to the screen) but there is enough to accompany. Its not a balance - you will hear predominantly choir and not much organ (especially with the sheer volume of sound St Mary's choir can create in the louder moments) so if you enjoy hearing the organ and choir balanced well and both loud then it won't be for you. Co-ordination isn't always easy - there is a video at the console but the organ does need to be that bit ahead of the choir for it to sync in. For services in the nave, it isn't as bad as one might expect, although I've never sat at the back of the nave when it's been full (which is about 700) and tried to listen (in fact, I don't think I've been in when the nave has been full). To try to compensate for the small size of the organ they made the mixtures quite strong in order to try and fill the church - with the result that the Scharf on the swell (or its equivalent, anyway) with the box open is absolutely piercing from the console and almost obliterates everything else. It will give the player a headache if you use it a lot. The Great mixture is much less forceful, so on the occasions I've accompanied there I've usually added that first (which on a standard English organ is not what I'd expect to be doing). I wouldn't say that there is a sense of a big 8' or something like that having a major presence to fill the building though. I'm guessing the organ was installed in the days before they did/do the variety of choral repertoire they do now (with three sung services a week - two on a Sunday and a Wednesday evensong). I know there are certain things that are simply impractical given the organ, although part of that is probably down to the lack of registration aids, as all the stop pulling is by hand. I find most of all that it cries out for some good English reeds - the baroque ones on there simply don't sit right (I find the manual ones a bit ugly, although the pedal reeds are good for Bach etc.) and you can't create that lovely full swell sound that is so characteristic of much English choral music. A look at the music list will reveal a full range of Howells, Elgar, Parry, Stanford, Dyson etc as well as masses by Vierne and Widor - more of a case of getting by than of it excelling I guess. Likewise with voluntaries - I've heard English and French stuff on there too - it is manageable - but not perhaps what you would call totally successful. There is much to be commend it as an instrument - it is visually pleasing (to my eye at least), the visible swell shutters on the front are a nice touch and it has its place for the baroque repertoire for which this sort of instrument was intended. It just doesn't quite fit the setting (it's not in a great place to fill the nave, never mind the size) and isn't helpful for the sort of things that are demanded of it. I would still commend visiting St Mary's though, to hear the excellent choir and enjoy the vast and magnificent building.

Its a bit of an assault course up to the Marcussen in St Mary's, Nottingham. A neo-baroque organ with no pistons is somewhat awkward when accompanying some of the Anglican choral repertoire too...nice if you're playing Bach though!

I think from our vicar's perspective he is just trying to encourage some kind of reverence and worshipful atmosphere (both pre-service and at communion). There has been a note on our pew sheet for some while know reminding people not to talk before the service because they can do that afterwards...I think whether it is music in the background or silence, the important thing is that people are allowed the opportunity to reflect and pray as they wish and don't find this disrupted by someone nearby having a chin-wag. Morning services can generally be rather noisy and busy anyway, and I wouldn't personally want to survive on a diet of morning Eucharists only....thankfully at Evensong (whether at my own church or elsewhere) you can usually find an atmosphere which is more conducive to personal reflection, because of the nature of the service and the fact that the congregation is smaller and there are usually less young children (I don't wish to discourage young children from being in church - far from it - but they can provide a distraction).

The comments about the talking are interesting. I wouldn't say the pre-service talking is loud, but it is there. Unfortunately music does seem to provide an excuse for them to talk - if there isn't any then their talking becomes more conspicuous. The vicar did say that we would try it without music in Lent and see how it goes. At communion, we now have silence until something like a third to a half of the congregation have been up before we start the communion hymn and then its straight into the anthem (by the time that has finished the servers should have about finished doing all their clearing up). We used to have a hymn then me improvising up to the anthem, but I do think that we underestimate the value of silence sometimes and the change has definitely worked. I don't think this is a plan to get rid of pre-service music altogether (I must say I don't normally prepare something 'special' - I tend to take out something I know and sight-read mostly before improvising on the first hymn if time remains) but an exercise of Lenten penitence (or similar!). As for post-service voluntaries, I always say that I would love to play some more quiet stuff, but I wouldn't be able to hear myself playing pp as the speakers are at the back where everyone gathers for coffee. I can just about get away with it in the Widor but it just about disappears from earshot in the middle of that. The vicar says that the louder I play the louder they talk (perhaps true) - but at the end of the day they make a choice to jump out of their seats and rush to the back or out through the door. Therefore from my perspective any 'toning down' during Lent would be tricky, so I thought playing the 8 short P&Fs would be a happy medium in that respect. I am fortunate that the voluntaries are appreciated and do draw comments. I try to give them a variety of pieces (transcriptions included) and I do get positive comments about them. I am also always trying to add new pieces to my repertoire while cycling round ones I have previously done so it remains fresh. The only negative comments recently were on Ascension Day when I played some Messiaen (movements 1&4) which the Vicar didn't like, but several others said they did enjoy them. Thanks for all the replies, anyway!

Lamentably perhaps I play very little Bach. BWV 729 I do every Christmas plus a few other preludes, and I have done the St Anne Fugue once but very little else. Inspired entirely by handsoff's post in this forum, the other day I hit upon the idea of using the 8 short P&Fs for my post-service voluntaries through Lent (picking six of them, one for each Sunday morning - our vicar has decided to have no pre-service music to try to stop them all from talking). After examining the music online and then buying a copy earlier (I decided having a properly laid out book was worth spending £8 on) I have just spent a very enjoyable half hour or so sight-reading through the set. There were several bits which will need some work such as some of the trickier pedalling and rapid manual phrases, but generally it was very successful. I know they are not thought to be by Bach (making my opening to this post something of a contradiction), so what should I put down on the weekly notice sheet? I'm highly tempted to just attribute them to Bach (especially as they've all been assigned BWV numbers), and I doubt anyone will query it! Is anyone on here planning to do anything in particular for voluntaries during Lent?

I watched it back earlier today and thought it was good. Good to hear Coe Fen without any descant or major harmonic alteration - I don't think these work for this particular hymn. I did notice everything was sharp! Was it me or did the organ seem very loud at the start of verses, particularly middle verses? Also, I observed the closing credits and noted that Daniel Moult was playing - why did the DOM who they did a feature on not play? If she can play the Widor surely she can accompany hymns!