Phil T

"So there they stood in Quire and Transept, two large organs not so very many yards away from each other. They were tuned to the same pitch, so that they could be used together if so wished............" "Could they be combined so that one person could preside over both? That was the question." "The use of electricity had by now progressed beyond the experimental stage, and there was an organbuilder who was specialising in the use of electric action, namely, Robert Hope-Jones of Birkenhead." "Hope-Jones completed his task in 1896, but much of the pipework of the existing two organs was discarded in favour of his own work" The instruments removed by H-J? A 3 m (43 Stops) and a 4 m (51 Stops) by Hill. To me it’s a shame that H-J didn’t just combine the two instruments as per the original plan.

I guess we’re talking about the Hope-Jones here, as time can’t be turned that far back? I have an old (twenty years or more) booklet about the organs of Worcester; it implies that the organs (two) removed by H-J were regarded by many as far superior to the one that replaced them. It also implies that all Worcester wanted was for H-J to make the two organs playable from one console. Hope-Jones, vandal or genius? Depends what side of the fence you happen to be.

Fantastic post Paul. The problem seems to be about deciding what the organ is going to be used for. You can produce a fantastic instrument to accompany a choir, or a good recital instrument. The trick is to have a blend of the two. The problem is when those with influence try to move the organ in one particular direction.

So we’d better all turn off our mobile phones in church rather than put them to silent?

Am I missing something here?

This sort of thing is very subjective and a personal. I’m with JJK on this one. There is something about the organ at Kingston that just doesn’t work for me. I can’t put my finger on it, but I find it “leaves me cold” too.

For me the speed was a little on the slow side, not by much, but I’d have liked it a little faster. I liked the accompaniment for v2; it gave the choir a firm foundation but didn’t swamp them. Unison for first and last verse is always a good idea; it provides a good lead and bookends the hymn. I did notice a BIG voice (congregation I hope) that sang out of tune for the whole thing.

Where it’s nice is when an old instrument ends up largely unaltered in a new location. St James the Great in Barrow is one such example, the organ there was formally at the Chapel Royal of the same name. To me, at least, this is better than the wholesale destruction of a perfectly good instrument. But then, Life goes on.

The history of organ building is littered with people who junked old instruments for their own. Hope-Jones (at Worcester) largely junked what was there (before) for his own pipe work. Is it a good or bad thing? That largely depends on your point of view? Some loved the Hope-Jones, others hated it.

But Sean, think of the enjoyment your playing brings. All that lovely Christmas music, all those happy people.

I’d forgotten that the organ at Hampton court (when last rebuilt) had some electronic stops added to it. I’ve only heard it live the once and wasn’t overly impressed with what I heard, but then was that due to the addition of the electronic stops? Interesting article, thanks Paul. I was glad that the chap who did it was sympathetic to the original instrument, adding his own work but not destroying what went before.

I’m probably showing my ignorance here (not that unusual), but is there such a thing as a listed organ? Listed buildings have strict guidelines over what can and can’t be altered. I guess the reason why people don’t add stops on new wind chests is down to two things, money and space.

It is sad that to many people, Christmas music is pop/rock songs and the odd carol played too loudly over a poor PA system. Rudolph the Red nose Reindeer strikes more of a chord to many than Bethlehem Down, sad but true.

Doesn’t that depend or the site that the music was downloaded from? Choral Public Domain Library This site for example, allows you to download and print at will. Having looked at a few pieces, some of the editing is suspect and a few pieces have been transposed into different keys.

I had forgotten about this particular “gem” (sarcastically said just in case you didn’t realise). I’ve no doubt that when I take my daughter to the kids carol service I’ll be reminded of a few more.

The worst hymn I’ve ever come across came from 100 Hymns for Today. I can’t remember its name or the tune but the whole hymn was putting across the point that God was everywhere. The words included: - as big as a Tree, as big as a House, as big as a Nuclear Submarine. AARRRRRRGH

Well four years, not a huge amount of time in the great scheme of things I guess.

Well no, but to go off at a tangent (slightly)…….Visitors to my local parish church are told that the organ was built by a chap (his name is never mentioned) who once worked for Cavaille-Coll. No idea who this chap was, he may have been a tea boy for all we know.

If he did resign (Adrian Lucas), then that's a very brave move unless he was "asked" to apply for Johns. If Andy does go to St Paul’s then Winchester will be up for grabs, another prime post.

Once again, it seems, I am late to the party. It's good to be back, now lets get on with disagreeing about everything.

I think one of the problems is that as we grow old, what we want from a church changes. Whilst it is essential to attract the younger generations to church, it is also important to realise that not all folk want praise songs. All ready the psalms are an unknown for many churchgoers.

Perhaps clergy have been misinformed during the appointment process, but there are ways of dealing things and ways of dealing with things. The church is the people; drive the people away and the church will crumble.

Why do vicars feel the need to change things at a new parish? A good friend of mine was asked to leave (repeatedly) by the then new vicar, because the vicar saw him as an obstacle in his path for “reforming” the church. Out went Matins, in came “All age/family services”; out went one third of the congregation, in came NOBODY. The vicar was happy though.

Thank you for considering my un-educated feelings. I started reading the BBC link until I got to.... “As with so much of English, it is somewhat illogical in its function, the finer points being confused even by master grammarians” I bid you gentlemen farewell until we once again collide in cyberspace.

Nimbus Records "Christmas from Lichfield" NI 5496. Played by Andy Lumsden, one word, FANTASTIC.