Colin Harvey

I came across a lovely piece in the Village Organist (I have a few copies of this sort of thing for sight-reading practice). It was "A Lament" by John E West. Nice piece - a rare gem in this series.

Is it this: http://www.pilarcabrera.com/mp3/pilar/langlais1.mp3 I think it was the one. Yes, I rather like it! I think I'll have to learn to play it to see whether it's better than Mendelssohn. Wish me (lots of) luck!! :angry: Many thanks to you for helping me find this piece of music again!

No, it wasn't that. Much quicker, I think the chords were in triplets...

Shame we can't humm to each other over the discussion board!! Yes, I think it was from Trois Paraphrases Gregoriennes...

I've heard a few of the smaller pieces (can't remember which ones) and I've generally like it. There was one piece I heard that I really liked - I asked the organist what it was and I've now forgotton. It was quite low and dark in texture, with a lot of repeated chords and a lot of brooding energy. It was electric! So I keep an open mind about Langlais, Te Deum aside...

While I really can't stand the Te Deum. I'm afraid phrases of plainsong interspersed with a series of loud chords, then more plainsong, then more chords really doesn't do it for me. I am constantly waiting for it to finish and get frustrated and impatient when I hear more loud chords. It doesn't really go anywhere.

Have to say give me Chopin and a nice piano any day over Mendelssohn's organ sonatas. Mendelssohn said "as music, I abhor it" of Chopin - well, guess what? I listen to Mendelssohn and think it's quite nice but by the time you've learnt to play it and sorted out the fiddly movements in sonatas III and IV, you may as well not have bothered. However, I quite like Rondo Capricioso and Variations Serious on the piano but they're no match for a Chopin Ballade. I must be honest, I find Dupre rather dry and uninvolving musicially, althought the loud stuff is exciting. I like the G minor prelude and fugue, though and few other bits and pieces. I was just thinking that while the organ has Bach (as does the violin and clavier), we don't really have a Beethoven or a Chopin who took the music on and really is one of (note: not sits with) the musical greats. Perhaps part of it has to do with the accessibility of the instrument - very few composers had an organ in their house and until the latter part of the 19th century, you had to find people to raise the wind, etc... so it isn't really an instrument you could sit down at and fiddle with ideas late into the night.

That's right. I have a degree in quantum physics and this is the way I use it....

I was just thinking about some of my favourite performances of Bach. Here are some of my "favourites": Prelude and Fugue in F minor, BWV 534: M-C Alain, Alkmaar Dorian Toccata, BWV 538: Miklos Spanyi Toccata in F, BWV 540: Helmut Walcha, Alkmaar Prelude and Fugue in G major, BWV 541: Martin Souter, Nordbroek Fugue in G minor, BWV 542: Helmut Walcha, Alkmaar Prelude and Fugue in A minor, BWV 543: E Power-Biggs Prelude and Fugue in C major, BWV 545: Piet Kee, Gronigen Prelude and Fugue in C minor, BWV 546: M-C Alain Prelude and Fugue in Eb, BWV 552: Piet Kee, Gronigen Jig Fugue: Peter Hurford, Norden but Virgil Fox at Wanamakers runs a close second... Passacaglia & Fugue in C minor: Lionel Rogg, Arlesheim Of course, this is not a definitive list: I don't own or have listened to all the recordings ever made and I am not a definitive judge. These are just my favourites. I've heard a recording of Cochereau playing the B minor, BWV 544, at Notre Dame at the old console, which I rate highly but I can't remember hearing it from beginning to end and I don't own a copy myself so I can't really include it. Similarly, I've heard Gillian Weir play the Prelude and Fugue in D major (BWV 532) on the radio but since I don't own it, I haven't included it here. It's worth bearing in mind the following with these performances: * Some have changes of stops and manuals, others don't. * some have quick tempos, others are slow, others are in the middle * All of these performances are musically inspiring and persuasive (well, to me they are). So I'm tempted to think that perhaps the focus of playing Bach has to come from within, to bring the music to life and judgements about tempo and registration, historical authenticity, while important and relevant, are means to an end - an inspiring performance of music - rather than an end in themselves. But why do we spend so much time and effort discussing historical authenticity and registration and so little about interpreting the music (and I don't mean historical articulation and fingering)? Well, one is very easy to talk about and the other is extremely hard...

It sounds like a feeble goat bleating, rather like the bleating of a fractional length reed from a neo-baroque organ, circa 1972. I haven't heard your recording of Tibetan Monks singing - I must rush out and get the CD to see how it compares against my recordings of russian basses... Yes, I can well believe it. One of my favourite recordings of this piece is Lionel Rogg at Arlesheim. He gets down to a 4' flute at one stage too and changes manuals quite a bit in the fugue. And very effective it is, too. .... then there was this time at bandcamp?? .... Oh dear, must have been hillarious. (has someone got a chainsaw - I feel a need for one right now). It just shows that it's necessary to listen to the musical effect and play the music for how it sounds out of that organ, rather than how it should sound just by pulling out the right looking stops.

Inspired guess here: how about E Power Biggs at Busch Reisiger in Harvard? Apart from the pedal reeds (which do sound like Tuvan throat singing to me), I could easily believe it. Mind you, I've really enjoyed listening to it, it is very good. I remember hearing this piece on my beloved 1910 Walker. All that was needed was OD II, Principal and fifteenth and the pedal bourdon coupled to it and it was quite a damascine moment for me. It was beautifully clear, suave sound and you could have listened to it all day without wearing of the sound. It was wonderfully played by the organist at the time, very similar, in fact, to the recording but for the registration changes. On this subject, I'm tempted to say horses for courses. I wouldn't play the Bach Passacaglia on a single registration but I might consider playing the entire fugue on a single registration.

Yes, absolutely! It would be a very dull board if we all agreed with each other. Like music, you need dissonance, which creates tension, which in turn creates interest and people writing back, wondering what people are going to say next, etc and it's then very much nicer when people finally do agree on something. One of the things I've noticed is that we've all had very different experiences and it shows when we offer an opinion and it probably informs our opinions to a greater extent. And yes, no-one is right or wrong about these things! Interesting to read your comments about the relatively unassertive foundation stops on the organ you play. Which organ is it? I made a brief recording of mine before it went and the thing that hit me the most was the relative hugeness of the foundation stops compared to the upperwork.

I thought "capita" was latin for head. Perhaps it will have an effect on heads when it is played?

Couple of things to add to this: To help with the brief, perhaps it would be good to suggest a suitable parish sized church. How would say, St. Thomas in Salisbury, be for a suggestion? Very nice church but the organ has some very old pipes in it, part of the old Cathedral organ, I believe. But perhaps this would be a good place to think of for the spec in the context of this academic exercise if you assume for now it doesn't have an organ. Re. the interesting discussion about quints/twelfths. I agree with Rodrigo (welcome, Rodrigo, btw) that they help to bind the chorus and help to clarify the unison. I haven't found they muddy counterpoint unless they are poorly voiced or are in an intimate acoustic so I don't agree on that point. I find 12ths are an option in the chorus: they give the organist an option of colour in the pleno extra to the mixture. I don't want a "one size fits all" chorus for Bach P&Fs - I want ways of colouring it. Also they are an important part of the harmonic series as the 3rd partial so I find it slightly odd if you have separate stops for the 2 partial and the 4th but not for the 3rd. Finally, 12ths are not replaced by the mixture which is normally smaller scale and adds brightness and doesn't have that slightly fifthy "tang" of the twelfth. So I find it a useful stop, in the chorus or as a solo stop.

I, too, am very lucky to have a wonderful vicar with a sense for opportunity and also doubly blessed (along with you) to be the client for a new pipe organ for our church. When the old organ (see NPOR record D06665) was removed (to take the casework and some of the pipework for the new organ), the vicar and I, with help from a couple of others, realised a long-dreamt of moment and removed the carpet from the choir and sanctuary. Everyone's interest was diverted to the gaping hole where the organ used to be and didn't notice the carpet had gone until we pointed it out, at which point they started to admire the tiles on the floor, which had been designed by the church architect. The carpets had rotted underneath and held in damp, so no-one wants them back and we are very happy with the small treasure of tiles we've discovered underneath. From the choir's point of view, it's made the chancel easier to sing in. We had an interesting state where they would always go flat in the chancel but not in the (lino-floored) lady chapel, which boasts excellent acoustics and where we sing during communion. Now the carpet's gone, the choir's intonation is much better in the chancel and hopefully it'll be more friendly for the new organ when it arrives. Back to your question, I would go for a tile or stone floor (a hard, shiny stone is best) as it's hard and reflective for sound and hard wearing. You could also think about under-floor heating - the choir would thank you . Wood can be nice and resonant but it's noisy to walk over and wears more quickly than tile or stone.

I would pick you up on this. I think a quint is an essential element of the chorus. Can you explain why you feel it is not?

I'm pretty sure it was straight but it might be concave. It's a shame it's not a radiating flat one, which are absolute b45T$Rds to play.

I think Christchurch, Oxford, would be a much better bet than Romsey. Romsey has a fabulous acoustic and is quite a forgiving instrument, really. Christchurch is as intimate as a small practice organ and is very demanding to play well. Also, I found the pedalboard and unusally placed swell pedal a bit off-putting, too....

I would like (that being a relative term) to see him "interpret" a Bach Trio sonata. Perhaps we could ask for one when he plays at Christchurch Cathedral, Oxford.

hi Ade - you've lost me. How does "have a banana" fit in with Stanford in C? Perplexed of Winchester

Don't know that: is it still in print? I have quite a peverse taste for this sort of music...

While I was practising in the church yesterday afternoon, a big group turned up and started talked loudly in the chancel, directly in front of where I was practising on quiet foundation stops. I felt this was a slightly unwelcome intrusion into my practice period as I was fumbling my way through the fugue to Bach's Passacaglia for the first time and i did not feel particularly inclined to go and speak with these people. I guessed by the number and the way they were talking they were thinking and talking through arrangements for their wedding in - January 2007! We sometimes get these sorts of weddings in this neck of the wood but this sets a new standard for forward planning. You can probably gauge my feelings about these events if I tell you I asked the mother of the bride (who is invariable the driving force behind these events) whether they have yet found a groom the first we met in January. I decided that I wanted a clear church so I switched the temperament on the toaster to "Meantone", selected a very full mixture chorus with all the Tierces I could find and started on an even shakier rendition of Sweelinck's Fantasia chromatica. There were a few bemused comments as they concentrated on the arrangements towards the back of the church and they had left within 5 minutes. :-)

I like this scheme a lot - I was thinking myself that in a 3 manual scheme, why not have Great, Swell and Solo. I was thinking of putting one up myself but pcnd has beaten me to it. It was sometimes favoured by English builders - like St. Bees or the De Montfort hall - and I think the new Klais in Singapore also has this arrangement. My only gripe with this scheme is that it's a bit thin on flutes and has no mutations, which may be a bit restrictive in quieter music and pre-romantic music. Perhaps it would be worth considering adding, say a 4' open flute to the great, a sesqiualtera (or quint and Tiece) to the great, say 4' & 2' (and maybe a 1 1/3) flutes to the swell and perhaps a wide scaled cornet to the solo, either decompose or under a compound stop. I guess that if space allows, it may be worth considering extending the violone down to 32' pitch rather than the bourdon, which would not have the standing wave problems that 32' bourdons can sometimes exhibit to the same extent, especially in smaller spaces, like smaller concert halls.

That's a bizzarre but not unattractive sound in the first link!! How does it work and how does the organist control it? It seemes the Physharmonica just fades in and out indepedantly of the rest of the organ.

I've just listened to the Vierne again. The shock horror of it is just as strong during a second listening. It's just unbelieveably bad. And it's made even worse because you know he could have learnt to play it properly but couldn't be bothered.