Colin Harvey

Hmmm, interesting.... I have heard rumours, too, of a return by Simon Preston and of a recital at Winchester Cathedral by him later this year. Hmmmmm!! But good news. I have a few of his recordings but have never heard him in the flesh. So I'm glad there's a new opportunity to hear him again.

... and it clearly takes a lot of effort and thought to think up a good Belgian joke, so they are bound to rarer...

By the sounds of it, a rare occurence....

I'm still wondering whether the rabbit is playing on a keyboard or is simply holding onto the side of the organ. The artist (a 14th Century monk from Norwich, if I remember correctly) has left it deliciously open to interpretation... It's a good thing that rabbit hasn't discovered the organ in pcnd's signature. Just think of the damage that rabbit could do to the chamades and what a fright those chamades could give that rabbit....

I think that rabbit certainly loves his organ a lot. There's something rather worrying about the angle of his head. Typical rabbit, really. Colin

Question for all those choir trainers who are clearly far better than I: Is it better to let your singers develop a well-rounded technique they can apply to singing in a choir, or is it better to train your singers for singing in the choir firstly and singing a broader repertoire as secondary? Opera singers do not seem to feel restricted to singing just opera: they sing Lieder, art songs and just about anything else. A cursory glance around a Cathedral song school or a lay-clerk's abode will reveal things like Schubert's Winterreise, Dichterliebe, etc. Do we want our choir members to be singers and musicians first who sing in a choir or do we want them to be more specialised for singing in a choir? I feel a similar analogy could be run between an organist and a musician...

....which is exactly my point!

I quite like this scheme. Just a couple of items: Why the 1 1/3 on the Great? Why not a 2 2/3, which would be more usual, fitting in the 8' harmonic series. Would not a 16' reed with a sub octave coupler be a bit hefty? Perhaps it would be better to have it at 8' so it can be used with the foundation stops. I would find this more flexible and you've got the sub 8ve coupler for the 16' effect. If it were me, I might suggest substituting the 8' flute for a 4' rank but there are pros and cons... I think there might be some on this board who may argue that the Great does not have a proper chorus because there's a tierce in the mixture and it is hence useless for Bach. Is the intention that the celestes works by itself or against the viola? Sorry, this might look a bit tight, but I think this looks like a pretty good scheme....

And the "interpretation" with the widest varience of tempos in a single performance is.... Arty Nobile

Then there is no hope. He's definately got his head stuck up his own "Arty".

Well, he's got the enthusiasm, just needs tempering with a good teacher (of which I'm sure there are many in the US) who can sort out his technique and get some style and taste into his playing. So long as his head isn't in the clouds or far up his own a***, he might have potential.

One wonders whether he might acutally benefit from some lessons...

At last!! An organist to play the great organ schemes of Born-in-arse. I think I had a disciple of this "organist" - sorry, "fusician" - give a concert at our church. GTB's Elegy and Mendelsohn III were the victims for sacrifice on the organ bench that time. They sounded exactly alike, except one gave the impression of going a bit faster in the middle...

I played a big Compton with an enclosed Great Organ and found it to be rather difficult to control. Not for me!

You actually get all types here: Romsey, for example, has the Swell quite a distance above the Great, in the triforium. Others have swell behind great at the same level, some have Swell above and behind great. I have even come across a few that have swell behind and below the Great. I've come across a new, very competent, organ at Woodmansterne in Surrey that has this arrangement.

That being so, I would prefer to have the swell positioned above the Great. I hope that there is sufficient height in the church so the temperature gradient from top to bottom of the church is such that there is an insignificant temperature difference between the swell pipes and the great pipes.

Some interesting questions here and some interesting thoughts and comments. I think some are very good points with a lot of thought behind them while others I find are rather subjective. For eaxmple, I know of a few instruments where the use of 8+4 flutes from the swell plus great twelfth would be distressingly harsh. In response to the other questions: 2 chorus trumpets: yes, luxury, but a luxury I would be keen to have. Very useful for French romantic music and terracing the choruses. It also gives the impression of a big organ from a small number of stops. I've had to live with an organ of 23 stops with no great reeds (or mixture) and found the lack very wanting. We could, I guess, perhaps have a clarinet on the great instead. The more forthright examples can add an extra clang to the ensemble and the upperwork can help give the impression of a trumpet. Examples where this works well include the Tickell at Honiton and I've come across a few other examples. It could also be used as a solo but if it's forthright, probably more of Cremona than a refined clarinet. flute disposition: I elected to put the 4' flute on the swell, where I find it is currently useful to have one to appear above 8 foundations and under control of the swell box. A 4' Gt flute would be very nice and would figure highly with me, especially for more variety of 8 & 4 combinations, but I've lived with lots of small organs without (like this 23 stop organ I without great reeds or mixtures) and in balence, this is sacrifice I would be happy to make. Since the 4' flute was on the swell, it made sense to add a 2' flute for a complete flute chorus and the 8 + 2 combinations so useful in the "parish choir" music of John Rutter You have got 16 & 8 flutes on the Gt, which could possibly be used up an octave. However, it might be a bit top-heavy if the 8' flute is a claribel. Regarding the claribel, I would want a small, light one, like the earlier Willis ones rather than the big, thick hooters we don't like. Sesquialteras belong to the principal family and I would expect them to work with the principals first and foremost and with the flutes as an added bonus. So I don't think a 4' flute is lacking for this reason. Swell Undulant; no, that's not a swell undulant you see. It is actually a celeste to work with the violin diapason but in retrospect, I see no reason why it shouln't be a flute celeste. I'm not a great fan of the salicional/gambe + flute foundation stops one often sees on modern organs, much prefering an open diapason to build the chorus rather than sacrifice full bodied foundation stops for the celeste. Get the choruses right first, then add the nice treats like celestes! I think a salicional + celeste is a rather unjustified luxury in an organ this size and I find that salicionals get swamped by anything larger than an echo lieblich gedact with the box shut. So I'll have a single rank beating against one of the foundation stops to give the impression of a celeste. It's not as if you have't got a swell box. A good example of the celeste I have in mind is on the Mander at Gray's Inn. It's very effective. On a small organ I would not dedicate 10% of the stops to a celeste at the expense of the good foundation stops. Onto another point, there is a secondary chorus - of violin diapson, principal and 2' mixture on the swell. I've played organs with tierces in their mixtures and wouldn't say that they are not choruses. So I don't agree with pcnd here. If you go for gambe/salicionals for your celestes, you get an even less satisfactory secondary chorus.... I tihnk it was David Coram who nominated wooden pedal octaves as the least musical stop on this forum and I agree with him. But our experience is based on the woolly octave extensions of 16 open woods, which are generally horrible. However, some modern builders are using wooden octaves of small scale and prompt, clear speech - Ken tickell is an advocate - which they cite as adding to a bourdon to give the impression of a 16 Open Diapason - a bit like a helper bass. they are very useful and effective. So that's what I was thinking here. As regards octave couplers - yes, I can quite see pcnd's point. Given the option between the 2, I prefer couplers that couple through intermanual couplers rather than those that don't. Instead of swell octave to pedal for a 4' solo from the swell 8s, it's normal enough to use swell to pedal, with the swell octave and unison off. but what pcnd suggests is the ideal, even if I don't particularly like organ consoles with a plethora of octave couplers, especially on 2 manuals. Regarding scales, I think there is some purpose giving some idea of what I'd like, especially as Pierre gave an idea of the church it was going in: a continental church, which generally are more lofty and spacious than british churches. I'm waiting for someone to bite on the dom bedos scales....

Interesting. They are pretty similar. I designed mine to be ideal for choral accompaniment - hence 4' swell flute, quite a lot of 8' tone, 8 swell oboe, etc. Just needs an easily accessible clarinet. I also liked the comment about "and thinks like a large organ even though it is relatively small." I would hope mine does the same. However, I'm interested to note the comments on the Dobson about the prominent quints in the swell mixture. I was asked to keep mutations out of choral accompaniment registrations (esp. psalms) as over a long-held notes, they can clash with the impure 5ths of the keyboard temperament. I would have thought an organ designed with a high priority for choral work would not have made a feature of a "quinty" mixture in the swell. i was glad to read the "Flageolet" was cheerful, too.

Wasn't there a review of this instrument in Organist's Review a few years ago?

Last year I had a lovely bride, who asked me to choose something that was "happy and funny" during the signing of the registers. I duly obliged with "Hornpipe Humouresque" (which none of them had heard). It went down a storm, they all listened and even got a good ovation for it. I've had a few more requests for it this year. I've always thought you should play something that shrinks into the background for the signing of the registers but now I think it should be entertaining. This year I'll offer the Cuckoo and the Nightingale as standard fare alongside Hornpipe Humoresque.

I've thought up a typically English scheme of 20 stops. very traditional, no great surprises. But this should work well and do everything you could want of 20 stops: Great 1. Bourdon 16 2. Open Diapason 8 3. Claribel Flute 8 4. Principal 4 5. Fifteenth 2 6. Sesquialtera II 2 2/3 + 1 3/5 7. Mixture IV 2' 8. Trumpet 8 Harmonic Trebles i. Swell to Great Swell Organ 9. Violin Diapason 8 10. Stopped Diapason 8 11. Celestes 8 (against violin Diapason) 12. Principal 4 13. Chimney Flute 4 14. Piccolo 2 15. Mixture IV 2' (including tierce) 16. Trumpet 8 17. Oboe 8 ii. Tremulant iii. Swell Octave iv. Swell Sub Octave v. Unison Off Pedal Organ 18. Bourdon 16 19. Octave 8 20. Trombone 16 vi. Great to Pedal vii. Swell to Pedal Willis Floating Lever action (I'm not having octave couples with mechanical action) Diapason scales would be based on Dom Bedos scales, 1/4 mouth widths, fairly generous scale at the unison. Progressive ranks up in pitch would be a bit smaller, quints & tierces smaller still. The bourdon would progress from a wooden stopped bass to a chimney metal treble The Clarible flute would be wood, of fairly moderate scale. The stopped diapason would have a metal chimney treble. the piccolo would go through a chimney bass to be open, possibly tapering in the treble. Swell trumpet narrower scale than the Great trumpet. Swell oboe would be capped and be of very smooth tone. Swell octave couplers would also work when played from great. Pedal ranks of moderate scale - only a few pipes larger than great. Octave might be of wood. Trombone would be of moderate wooden scale and fairly dark tone.

Hi MM. Thanks for the history of this organ, which shows exactly the authenticity and says much better what I was trying to say. Perhaps the haste in which I usually write on this board accounts for some misunderstanding of my thoughts sometimes. Zwolle was a wonderful experience and I admire what Flentrop did.

Well, the manufacturer's price for a C3 is about £17k new but as you say, you could get one for £10k. Herein lies the difference - C3s are made in fairly large volumes compared to pipe organs, which are made to order only, so it's possible to get a bargain on the piano. Pipe organs, from the manufacturer, with perhaps a 10% profit margin (max!) just don't have the same discounting abilities as dealers. I think Peter Collins makes his EOS practice organs in batches - and I guess you could probably get a 3 stop version between 10 and 15k. Most tend to be 15-20k but they've usually got a few more stops. I think Walkers used to do a very small practice organ of II/P of about 3 stops. Don't know what it costs, probably the same bracket. I would say I've played a few Yamaha C3s, including one in a toaster showroom and it put me off buying a electronic substitute. I would more than happily live with one - in fact, a good grand is higher up my shopping list than a pipe organ for my home!

Well, they were de rigeur again quite recently.... and girl's fashions were quite 1960s again quite recently - they now seem to be a bit more extreme. I don't mind one bit but they must get very cold bearing all that mid-riff in the depths of winter. Back on the subject of electric verses pipes and house organs - it's worth bearing in mind many organ builders now make small 2 manual and pedal organs of about 5 or so stops. Usually, these end up in the £25-£35k bracket - so what you would expect to pay for a new 5'6'' to 6'6'' Grand piano by a reputable maker. And they are very much the equal of a good grand. I guess, given a few years there will be second hand ones about, roughly in line with 2nd hand grand piano prices... For those of us, who don't have pockets or space for these, then, just like clavinovas, there are your Wyvens and Viscounts at a fraction the cost... I see quite a lot of parrallels between the house organ market and the piano market.

Having played Zwolle and heard the Westerkerk, I should just point out that Zwolle was heavily "restored" in the 1960s and is not all that authentic and I'm told that the Westerkerk is largely a new instrument built in the 1980s. But they are both fabulous. Westerkerk is a lovely organ to listen to and look at. Wonderful principals. Zwolle is thrilling to play.