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Worcester Cathedral


Lucasorg

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Guest Lee Blick
From what I have heard of the Diaphones, getting anything from a "normal" organ to blend with them would be pretty much impossible.

 

I recall a fascinating conversation with Christopher Robinson a few years back about the old Tuba Profunda from the Hope-Jones pedal department which survived until the early 1970s. I believe this was double tongued and of immense proportions...enough to be heard from the other end of Gloucestershire, I should imagine.

 

Does anyone on this board have any personal recollections of this stop?

 

A

 

 

Nope, couldn't hear it from the Chiltern Hills of Buckinghamshire.

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From what I have heard of the Diaphones, getting anything from a "normal" organ to blend with them would be pretty much impossible.

 

I recall a fascinating conversation with Christopher Robinson a few years back about the old Tuba Profunda from the Hope-Jones pedal department which survived until the early 1970s. I believe this was double tongued and of immense proportions...enough to be heard from the other end of Gloucestershire, I should imagine.

 

Does anyone on this board have any personal recollections of this stop?

 

A

 

Not this stop. However, I do have a good quality copy of the recording of the Worcester Cathedral organ issued as part of the Great Cathedral Organs series. Christopher Robinson used the 32p and 16p diaphones near the end of the first movement of Mendelssohn's Third Sonata - actually I have heard worse sounds.

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From what I have heard of the Diaphones, getting anything from a "normal" organ to blend with them would be pretty much impossible.

 

======================

 

Diaphones can be extremely musical, and should anyone find themselves sitting at large Wurlitzer, they may well find a "Diaphonic Diapason" unit, which blends perfectly well with the flues which continue upwards from the diaphone basses.

 

They are very difficult to make and regulate, and somewhere, I have a very comprehensive article about the tricks and quirks of diapaohones, written by John Compton.

 

The main thing about Diaphones is the huge amount of power they can push out, and I have heard big diaphonic basses on American theatre-organs which fairly rattle the ear-drums, scare small children and cause cockroaches to instantly migrate.

 

As I've said before, I DO HOPE THEY WILL DONATE THE WORCESTER DIAPHONES TO THE HOPE-JONES MUSEUM IN MANCHESTER.

 

I don't expect they will.

 

MM

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Guest Lee Blick

Donate them to Steve Borniarse. Voiced on 500" wind on his forthcoming conservative 12 manual, 3000 stop manifestation at St. Peter's, Rome, I am sure it will evoke the romantic sounds of the swirling winds up the Malverns.

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As I've said before, I DO HOPE THEY WILL DONATE THE WORCESTER DIAPHONES TO THE HOPE-JONES MUSEUM IN MANCHESTER.

 

I don't expect they will.

 

MM

How cynical is that? I would certainly rather they found a good home! I suspect the biggest problem is likely to be transporting them.

 

However, I should stress that the final decision will rest not with me, but with the Chapter whose vision and support have led to our projected new organs in the first place.

 

A

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Guest Roffensis
This sounded slightly seedy until I realized what you meant....!!!

 

I don't see why not. Mind you, we would probably need one when the Tickell instrument is completed, one more when the Transept is done and another when the Nave instrument draws to a close... an organ-fest in the making??

 

 

Oh yes! The nave organ.... who is doing that Adrian? is it Nicholsons? is it going ot be along French lines? for those nice French Masses? :o

 

Interesting revelations about the acoustic as well.

 

Berst reagrds,

 

Richard.

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How cynical is that? I would certainly rather they found a good home! I suspect the biggest problem is likely to be transporting them.

 

However, I should stress that the final decision will rest not with me, but with the Chapter whose vision and support have led to our projected new organs in the first place.

 

A

 

 

============================

 

Cynical? Me? Nah!

 

No problem! £250+VAT and we could have them in Manchester tomorrow in a 40ft rig.

 

Should we start a whip round?

 

"Lucasorg" knows Robert Wolfe, so perhaps we should approach him...he has money!

 

:o

 

MM

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Donate them to Steve Borniarse. Voiced on 500" wind on his forthcoming conservative 12 manual, 3000 stop manifestation at St. Peter's, Rome, I am sure it will evoke the romantic sounds of the swirling winds up the Malverns.

 

But this is, surely, only his scheme for the orgue-du-choeur....?

:o

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Guest Andrew Butler

Sorry - try again...

 

======================

The main thing about Diaphones is the huge amount of power they can push out, MM

 

Should have winded one up and used it do demolish the swell box :)

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:):P

 

Happily in France organs are protected by commissions. Otherwise all those which are not to the taste of certain persons (Notre-Dame of Paris, Saint-Sulpice, Saint-Ouen of Rouen, Saint-Sernin of Toulouse, etc) would leave to the garbage can. To destroy his heritage it is to kill History.

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Happily in France organs are protected by commissions. Otherwise all those which are not to the taste of certain persons (Notre-Dame of Paris, Saint-Sulpice, Saint-Ouen of Rouen, Saint-Sernin of Toulouse, etc) would leave to the garbage can. To destroy his heritage it is to kill History.

If that had been the case in England, Worcester might not have got into some of this mess... Personally, I would love to have heard the 1874 Hill in the Transept for which the Elgar Sonata was written. Whilst its position was not brilliant, I reckon it must have been an amazing instrument...

 

That said, the change in worshipping habits through the end of the 19th century would still have demanded better support for Nave congregations. This we aim to put right when the Nave organ is built.

 

A

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If that had been the case in England, Worcester might not have got into some of this mess... Personally, I would love to have heard the 1874 Hill in the Transept for which the Elgar Sonata was written. Whilst its position was not brilliant, I reckon it must have been an amazing instrument...

 

That said, the change in worshipping habits through the end of the 19th century would still have demanded better support for Nave congregations. This we aim to put right when the Nave organ is built.

 

A

 

I agree - although I think that the NPOR specification is slightly incorrect. I thought that the GO also had a 16p Contra Posaune. I am currently at school, but I will check the Vernon Butcher book when I get back - unless Mr. Lucas has a copy to hand?

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If that had been the case in England, Worcester might not have got into some of this mess... Personally, I would love to have heard the 1874 Hill in the Transept for which the Elgar Sonata was written. Whilst its position was not brilliant, I reckon it must have been an amazing instrument...

 

That said, the change in worshipping habits through the end of the 19th century would still have demanded better support for Nave congregations. This we aim to put right when the Nave organ is built.

 

A

 

As I’ve said before on this board, if Hope-Jones had stuck to his original brief then you (Worcester) would have two fine Hill organs which could have been played independently from each other or both at the same time from a singular console. But then time travel isn’t possible?

 

:)

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:):P

 

Happily in France organs are protected by commissions. Otherwise all those which are not to the taste of certain persons (Notre-Dame of Paris, Saint-Sulpice, Saint-Ouen of Rouen, Saint-Sernin of Toulouse, etc) would leave to the garbage can. To destroy his heritage it is to kill History.

 

Notre Dame has had some 'interesting adventures' though!

 

AJJ

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In 1868 Notre-Dame of Paris was an instrument for improvisation, it was impossible to play some organ pages because all keyboards had just copula on Grand-orgue (I/II, III/II, IV/II, V/II) and just "Grand-orgue/pédale" and "Grand-choeur/pédale (I/P, II/P). How play Franck or Vierne without more accessories? That's why Vierne an Cochereau have modified this organ which was an intellectual instrument into a music instrument.

 

Sorry for my english...

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In 1868 Notre-Dame of Paris was an instrument for improvisation, it was impossible to play some organ pages because all keyboards had just copula on Grand-orgue (I/II, III/II, IV/II, V/II) and just "Grand-orgue/pédale" and "Grand-choeur/pédale (I/P, II/P). How play Franck or Vierne without more accessories? That's why Vierne an Cochereau have modified this organ which was an intellectual instrument into a music instrument.

 

Sorry for my english...

 

Thanks for this interesting info. The English is fine!

 

AJJ

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Guest Roffensis
If that had been the case in England, Worcester might not have got into some of this mess... Personally, I would love to have heard the 1874 Hill in the Transept for which the Elgar Sonata was written. Whilst its position was not brilliant, I reckon it must have been an amazing instrument...

 

That said, the change in worshipping habits through the end of the 19th century would still have demanded better support for Nave congregations. This we aim to put right when the Nave organ is built.

 

A

 

 

I would also have loved to have heard the old Hill organ, and that is a travesty on the part of HJ that it was so ruthlessly spoilt. I don't think anyone would have been rushing in to destroy that today.

 

Richard.

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In 1868 Notre-Dame of Paris was an instrument for improvisation, it was impossible to play some organ pages because all keyboards had just copula on Grand-orgue (I/II, III/II, IV/II, V/II) and just "Grand-orgue/pédale" and "Grand-choeur/pédale (I/P, II/P). How play Franck or Vierne without more accessories? That's why Vierne an Cochereau have modified this organ which was an intellectual instrument into a music instrument.

 

Sorry for my english...

 

Do not worry - we can understand you well! (In any case, you should see my French on Organographia....)

 

I agree about the Nôtre-Dame organ. If only it had not been altered in 1990-92. Now, it sounds like a slightly louder version of King's, Cambridge. In particular, I think that removing both chorus mixtures from the Récit-expressif was a serious error of judgement. Even Vierne wished to include two similar mixtures - and in fact did have a Fourniture (or was it a Plein-jeu) added. He would also have added the correlating Cymbale, but this was precluded by financial restrictions.

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