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Songs of praise


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Now I will comment, having gained a flavour of what others think. I lost interest in it over 35 years ago when an OB recording for SoP was announced in the local paper of the area I was living in at the time. It concerned a church on the borders of Herefordshire and Worcestershire, and the article (which was actually nothing but a BBC ad) was soliciting attendees. However it stipulated that they had to be members of some choral society, choir, or had other 'qualifications' which permitted them to enter the building for the august occasion. Mere worshippers were excluded.

 

So much for the 'churchy' aspect. What is more relevant to the purpose of this forum is what the future role of the organ will be in the limited sense of how often it will continue to appear, and in the more general sense of its diminishing role in church quite independent of religious 'shows' of the SoP variety.

 

CEP

 

 

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Hi

 

SoP lost the focus on local churches a long time ago, as Colin says. One of the choirs my son sings with was "recruited" as part of the faux congregation for broadcasts from Southwark Cathedral a while back (they have also provided the music for a Sunday Half Hour on Radio 2).

 

I saw the lst part of yesterday's broadcast - it didn't seem much different, music wise, to many what I call "bitza" shows made up of music contributions lifted from previous broadcasts (I'd seen all the segments in previous programmes - and I'm by no means a regular viewer of SoP) - the only change seems to be the loss of any focus on a specific locality. Not sure that I liked the more global focus in the interviews, etc. - Wonder what the regular audience will make of it.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

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Qote from the BBC link - "The BBC's flagship worship show, Songs of Praise, is updating its programme as part of a relaunch." Didn't realise it was a worship show. ................??

 

I am afraid it has been a show for many years. The current rehash must be regrettable for the housebound elderly who cannot get to church and for whom a televised service would mean so much. They still have the Radio 4 service in the morning, of course, but the timing might not be convenient for all and there's nothing like being able to watch a service on television. However, the church desperately needs to conjure up a wider engagement. Popular entertainment is probably the only way it can now appear in any way relevant to the bulk of the people who regard it as an anachronism (or worse). Church attendance amongst native Britons is said to be worse than the figures suggest. It is difficult to escape the conviction that the western church is moribund. Insofar as I still care I hope I am wrong, but, either way, the long-term future of traditional church music lies on the concert platform.

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The popular view of the church, insofar as it can be summarised succinctly, is less black and white and rather more complicated than could be described as 'moribund', I think. If one expands the remit beyond organised religion to encompass spirituality in all its forms, the picture is quite different, indeed encouraging to those to whom it matters. Large numbers of people are known to have experienced some form of spiritual experience to the extent they have never forgotten it and whose lives have been changed by it. The work of the Religious Experience Research Centre at Lampeter, founded by the late Sir Alister Hardy (a famous biologist who once taught Richard Dawkins) is fascinating, as was the man himself, and among other things they have documented many thousands of written records and interviews with people who have had such experiences. See:

 

http://www.uwtsd.ac.uk/library/alister-hardy-religious-experience-research-centre/

 

Reverting to the church, it certainly does have its problems now that it (at least the Anglican church) is less well connected with the rest of the Establishment as it once was. However I have the highest regard for some of those called to its ministry and I applaud their courage and the real and valuable work they do, often in deprived areas which would be lost without them.

 

Reverting even more narrowly to organs and church music, I can only agree with the sentiment that the future has to lie increasingly outside the church if there is to be a future at all. The concert platform and recordings have to be the way to go.

 

CEP

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As far as the Anglican church is concerned, it seems that the parts which are attracting larger congregations are the Clap-Hands-Her-Comes-Charlie folk and the Cathedrals. As someone definitely in the latter camp, it seems to me that we could do a lot in promoting what we do. A lot of people claim to be 'spiritual' but are scared at the thought of going somewhere where they might have to 'do something'. The idea of being a full participant in an act of worship where a lot of the action is carefully carried out by those who have made careful preparation is appealing to many people and it's often the case that they just need pointing in the right direction. A lot of alternative and New Age spirituality is largely passive, and I can be a full participant in a flight from St. John's to Heathrow without actually having to pilot the aircraft....

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  • 2 weeks later...

As far as the Anglican church is concerned, it seems that the parts which are attracting larger congregations are the Clap-Hands-Her-Comes-Charlie folk and the Cathedrals. ...

 

Interesting - is this more indicative of Canada, David? I saw a survey in something a few months ago (it might have been the Church Times), which suggested that the only places in which the congregations are growing in number (in the UK) are the cathedrals and those churches which still stick largely to cathedral-style worship and music.

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I haven't watched SOP for many years!

 

A

Nor I but I do remember with a sort of fascinated horror watching ladies of a certain age on whom the camera was trained singing with a beatific smile on their lips, eyes half-closed and with a gentle side-to-side motion of the head... :wacko:

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The mere mention of 'Songs of Praise' brings back memories that I would rather forget!

 

I found myself doing a programme in the 1980's. At that time we had an ambitious Rector who saw SoP as being one vehicle for his further advancement! We, also, did a Radio 4(?) Morning Service - which was very different!

 

SoP was a nightmare! For some reason the BBC seemed to think that Catholics were at their best, if ever, during Lent (did anyone ever notice that they only ever, in those days, broadcast from Catholic churches during a Penitential season?). We had hymns imposed on us - my Rector gave me the list from the BBC, which included his favourite hymn, and I wrote a couple of arrangements - perhaps a re-harmonisation of a last verse for one and a descant for another. Another was a modern hymn whose accompaniment needed completely re-writing to make the tune singable. Then, after my work, the BBC changed their minds, one hymn was being sung in a Cathedral the week before and they didn't want a repeat and so on. All my work & time was wasted and I got no support from my Rector - who wanted to be 'on the tele!!'

 

The BBC was in the middle of industrial action by the Unions and they were leaving us to go to film at Salisbury where the, then, Dean, had refused to allow some aspect of the action to impede into the Close. So we had to film on one night instead of two! The Abbey church was tiny and was, at that time time, the smallest church they had ever used for a broadcast. We kept having to retake because a camera had, accidentally, gone into shot - and we were still there at 11 at night! - eventually some members of the Abbey choir we so fed up they just walked out!

 

Other hassles? They filmed in the Monastery attached to the church. The presenter was trying to film in the cloister when one of the Brothers walked down it. The Brother was told, in a non-too-polite way, to "move out of the way" and the presenter had to be reminded, from the normally quiet, benign and reserved Brother that "this is my home!" I remember the Methodist Minister refused to sing a hymn to Mary and stood, resolutely, with his arms folded and mouth tightly closed for all to see during the singing of that hymn! Political correctness came to the fore and we had to do more and more retakes to ensure that the BBC had shown a good cross section of the local population! There was an SATB 'choir', rehearsed on two seperate occasions before filming, and made up of local choirs 'in civvies' in the nave whilst 'the rest' were pushed into side aisles and chapels. 'Personalities' who rarely, if ever, came near the place were imposed on us for interviews - but they were told what hymns to choose by the BBC!

 

On the positive side I was impressed with the amount of care they took in preparing the programme! The East and West windows were very fine and scaffolding was built outside of the church for huge arc lamps to be erected so that the colour of the windows would be seen from the inside when filmed at night. The central aisle had grating down the sides of it and the movable cameras kept 'jumping' the ends of the grates. So they built a false central aisle and one man spent a whole day painting it the colour of the carpet and then painted black grating on the sides of it!

 

I don't watch it - ever! And I am thankful that I shall never have to do it again, thank goodness - but I got paid for it!

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Many moons ago the BBC vaguely hinted they might do SoP at the church where I was organist - they apparently used to send out scouts to suss out likely-looking edifices, and of course they had to come clean to the church as to why they were sniffing around. I was told they would boot me off the organ bench though, were it to happen, and replace me for the occasion with some august Chosen One. My reply to this was that the incumbent would then be faced with having to replace me, because having been booted off once, it would be for ever. For this and other reasons, a good proportion of everyone else connected with the church took a similar line about the whole event, including the choir.

 

As it happens, we were not deemed worthy enough for the luvvy brigade to descend so the issue never arose. However I failed to see why I should have been expected to perform (reasonably adequately I considered) for the common herd (meaning those who, like me, attended regularly in the absence of showbiz personalities) every Sunday of the year, yet make way for someone whose face might have merely fitted the camera better and who would have got paid a good deal more.

 

I don't watch it either, except on the odd occasion when I hit the tail end by accident and, through fascination by its sheer awfulness, I can't be bothered even to press another button on the remote.

 

At this time of year though, I'm just looking forward to 'Carols from King's'. I know some find this a tad wearisome and hackneyed, but to my mind it's one of the very few occasions when that wayward yet taxpayer-funded monstrosity simply broadcasts a bit of sheer excellence for a change.

 

CEP

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As a chorister, once the novelty had (quickly) worn off, SoP became interminably boring.

 

I agree about carols from King's- both the programme recorded for TV and the live Carol Service. For me, Christmas proper does not begin until the descanted (Willcocks, of course) last verse of "Once in Royal".

 

I look forward especially to the commissioned carol, which is sometimes controversial, usually interesting and often very, very good- if not brilliant.

 

A welcome tendency of late has been to show more of the Organ Scholars' performing- fascinating and salutary when viewing their easy technical accomplishment.

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I agree about carols from King's- both the programme recorded for TV and the live Carol Service. For me, Christmas proper does not begin until the descanted (Willcocks, of course) last verse of "Once in Royal".

 

 

The David Willcocks descant for 'Once in Royal' hasn't been used at Kings for well over 20 years. The one usually sung is by Stephen Cleobury although In 2012 the Philip Ledger descant was used.

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More's the pity !

 

It was a nice gesture in 2012, as Ledger had died in that November. There were last-minute re-orderings of the Service, resulting in something of a commemoration.

 

However, I've always been of the opinion that there's only one descant for this- and was always unhappy when I had to sing or play another one.

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I still think the Willcocks descants to most of the standards are the best, although it seems fashionable in some circles to assert that others (often home-grown) are superior.

 

I played for or conducted a few SofPs. They could be tiresome, the interviewees were sometimes distinctly odd and the producers (one in particular) had some funny ideas about hymns. I often felt that there was too much over-egging the pudding. I played for one St. Patrickstide SofP, where the music was recorded in Belfast Cathedral but the visuals were mostly in Down Cathedral. At least one item had brass dubbed in later in London. Shortly afterwards, I was at a Cathedral Organists' Association conference in Oxford and George Guest mentioned that he had heard the programme and what a fine instrument the Down organ was. I said, yes indeed (arguably the best organ in Ireland), but that wasn't it! They are both Harrisons, but very different from each other. An earlier SofP actually recorded at Down suffered from a real ignoramus of a sound engineer, who insisted on throttling down the organ so that it sounded like a glorified harmonium in the broadcast, although he didn't seem concerned about the brass quartet. The usual technique with this guy was to do as he said in the rehearsal and then let rip in the broadcast, but one couldn't do that in a recording...

 

I also did one from the RC church in Portaferry, the rehearsals on an inadequate toaster in the gallery and the broadcast on a better one at the east end. In one hymn, I was in shot during the play-over with a jacket on and later in the same hymn without the jacket - different takes!

 

As SL says, the money was useful, especially if a hymn was repeated, for example, on Thora Hird's programme. I did particularly well out of "To God be the glory" at St. Magnus Cathedral (so did my wife, as now is, although her solo verse didn't actually get shown in the original broadcast). The Daily Service was a nice little earner - half an hour's rehearsal and fifteen minutes live broadcast. Easy money unless the choir was inadequate. One such did Bairstow's "Though I speak with the tongues" as the anthem. I thought beforehand that it was a bit ambitious, and so it proved, especially as some members turned up late for the rehearsal and had not seen the piece before. The organ accompaniment in the broadcast was more of a rescue operation, but it seemed to please the Beeb. Most of the Daily Services recorded in Northern Ireland came from St. Martin's, Belfast, a small church near the shipyard with good acoustics and a superb Wells-Kennedy organ. St. Martin's was closed a few years ago - I hope the organ finds a good home.

 

While I was home in September, I happened to hear a Daily Service "from Belfast" and was rather chuffed to be proved right when I guessed the venue - St. John's, Malone - and the organist.

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However, I've always been of the opinion that there's only one descant for this...............................

 

 

I wouldn't disagree with that at all. I do sometimes find the Willcocks descant to Adeste Fideles a little tiresome, probably due to over-exposure, but the Irby descant I've always thought to be masterly.

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I love Willcocks' Adeste Fideles. That opening with the Tuba in the tenor and then the box opening into "Glory to God".... Toe-curling!

 

One that I think doesn't get as much use as it deserves is that to "It came upon the midnight clear". I think it's rather good but I don't get a chance to use it these days as a different tune is current in North America. I go along with it so that I can stand firm in insisting on "Forest Green" for "O little town of Bethlehem" instead of the dreadful "St. Louis". One has to be reasonable, although in Northern Ireland they used to say that the difference between a terrorist and an organist was that you could negotiate with a terrorist.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Organconvert

Speaking of Willcocks, I'm doing his Postlude on Mendelssohn at this year's midnight service. A fairly straightforward improvisation on Hark the Herald. Challenging but exhilarating to play. Anyone else doing it?

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