Jump to content


Photo

Most bizarre specifications?


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 Contrabombarde

Contrabombarde

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 553 posts

Posted 16 August 2016 - 06:32 PM

I thought I'd kickstart this having just come across what must be the most bizarre two manual specification I've ever seen, designed by no less than the great W Gauntlett and built in 1844-6 by Hill. A two manual (both 54 note C-f) organ with 25 stops on the Great including a 32 foot flue! No longer in existence, but I can find no record of its destruction. It was at St Olave's Southwark which became redundant in the early 20th century.

 

Pedal    
Contra Bourdon    32
Principal Contra Bass    16
Bass Trombone    16
    
Great    
Sub Bourdon    32 Tc
Tenoroon    16 Tc
Bourdon    16
Unison Open    8
Unison Treble Closed    8
Unison Bass Closed    8
Viol di Gamba    8 Tc
Salicional    8 Tc
Clarabella    8
Quint    6
Octave    4
Wald Flute    4 Tc
Decima    3 1/3
Duo Decima    3
Super Octave    2
Octave Decima    2 Tc
Sesquialtera    III
Mixture    II
Furniture    III
Doublette    II
Glockenspiel    II
Posaune    8
Clarion    4
Octave Clarion    2
Cromhorne    8 Tc
Corno Flute    8 Tc
    
Swell    
Tenoroon    16
Unison Open    8
Unison Closed    8
Octave    8 ?
Suabe Flute    4
Super Octave    2
Flageolet    2
Octave Fifteenth    1
Cornopean    8
Hautbois    8
 



#2 Colin Pykett

Colin Pykett

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 345 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

Posted 17 August 2016 - 09:01 AM

Extraordinary! Any couplers?  It makes Hope-Jones's work look quite normal.  At least there are choruses going up to mixtures and mutations which his didn't have.

 

Speaking of whom, here must be just about his smallest opus at All Soul's, Cardiff Docks in 1896, the same year his monumental Worcester Cathedral organ was completed.  Talk about chalk and cheese:

 

Pedal:

 

Bourdon 16

Diaphonic Horn 16

 

Manual to Pedal

 

Manual:

 

Contra Tibia 16

Open Diapason 8

Phoneuma 8

Viol d'Orchestre 8

 

Manual Octave (this was a coupler not a 4 foot speaking stop. It would not have coupled through the pedal coupler)

 

The organ no longer exists and I never saw or played it.  But judging by the similar tonalities at Pilton (Devon) and Llanrhaeadr which do still exist, the Pedal Diaphone would have been overwhelmingly loud and even the Bourdon too loud for soft combinations.  The Open Diapason would also have been by far the loudest manual stop.  It was probably not leathered otherwise it would have been called a Diapason Phonon.  The Viol would have been excruciatingly edgy (bottom C pipe typically around an inch in diameter).

 

But the Pilton organ is fun to play even if one ignores the later non-HJ excrescences which have been added, and it would have been a serviceable church organ in most respects.

 

CEP


"You can never know everything about something. But you can always know something about everything" - Amit Kumar

 

www.pykett.org.uk


#3 Gwas Bach

Gwas Bach

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Powys

Posted 17 August 2016 - 06:52 PM

It was Henry Lincoln who started building the first organ, but the technical challenges proved too difficult, so William Hill was called in to finish the job.



#4 AJJ

AJJ

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,575 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somerset UK

Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:38 AM

There is a photo. circulating with 'Vestry to Great' and 'Vestry to Pedal' couplers shown on a console. I have a feeling this might have been previously mentioned on here but if anyone can re throw a light on where and why it would be interesting to hear.

A
"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#5 SL

SL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:16360 Le Tatre, FRANCE

Posted 18 August 2016 - 07:14 AM

There is a photo. circulating with 'Vestry to Great' and 'Vestry to Pedal' couplers shown on a console. I have a feeling this might have been previously mentioned on here but if anyone can re throw a light on where and why it would be interesting to hear.

A

 

I might be wrong, and I apologise if I am, but I think that was pcnd5584 who mentioned that he had that, or something similar, (thinking about it, I think it was 'choir to pub'!) put on an instrument where he was, at the time, organist.

 

He also mentioned that he intended to have, when the Minster organ at Wimbourne is restored, 'Pulpit trapdoor' - very good!


SL (late of Kings College, Cambridge)


#6 Gwas Bach

Gwas Bach

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 110 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Powys

Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:09 AM

I like the idea of the "secret switch" mentioned in the Rutt organ's spec here.



#7 AJJ

AJJ

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,575 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somerset UK

Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:37 PM

I like the idea of the "secret switch" mentioned in the Rutt organ's spec here.


Wimborne Minster has one of these to disable the Chamades with the key secure at all times in the pocket of the current 'Titulaire'. I have also heard of a similar arrangement at a well known public school where the decibel levels of teenage practice can be kept in check by means of a switch and lock.

A
"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#8 SL

SL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:16360 Le Tatre, FRANCE

Posted 19 August 2016 - 05:25 AM

Wimborne Minster has one of these to disable the Chamades with the key secure at all times in the pocket of the current 'Titulaire'. I have also heard of a similar arrangement at a well known public school where the decibel levels of teenage practice can be kept in check by means of a switch and lock.

A

 

Would that be the Ampleforth Trompetta Argentea - that certainly had a seperate motor and key to it when I was there!


SL (late of Kings College, Cambridge)


#9 SomeChap

SomeChap

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 10:44 AM

God's own county provides a couple more bonkers ones to chew on.

 

Most obvious is the post-fire Hill monster once to be found in York Minster, with ten 4ft Principals on the great, and three 32ft flues. Imagine the mushy celeste effects! http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N03908

 

Very obscure but even more chin-scratching is the Binns at Kirk Hammerton: only 15 stops, but it has recently acquired an Oboe-Quint at 5 1/3 on the Swell.  No, me neither.  http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=E00648



#10 AJJ

AJJ

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,575 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Somerset UK

Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:12 PM

 
.........but it has recently acquired an Oboe-Quint at 5 1/3 on the Swell.  No, me neither.  http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=E00648


This on first impressions would seem pointless........

A
"…We can’t criticize the organ for being boring. In such cases it is the organist that is boring. There is no such thing as a boring organ."

#11 GrossGeigen

GrossGeigen

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 92 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 August 2016 - 04:56 PM

Three Quint ranks and no Great Open - wonder how that works when accompanying a big crowd...

There appears to be a far more intriguing instrument in the village....

#12 SlovOrg

SlovOrg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 66 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maribor

Posted 23 August 2016 - 05:31 PM

Most obvious is the post-fire Hill monster once to be found in York Minster, with ten 4ft Principals on the great, and three 32ft flues. Imagine the mushy celeste effects! http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N03908

 

Strangely, although the link appears to be correct, it won’t take you to the specification of the Hill instrument. :)

M



#13 Deinonychus

Deinonychus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 August 2016 - 07:26 PM

I was recently reminded of the organ in St-Sepulchre-without-Newgate which has a fairly conventional manual configuration, but a ridiculously large pedal division for an organ of 13 stops: http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N17580

#14 David Drinkell

David Drinkell

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 999 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fredericton Cathedral, New Brunswick

Posted 29 August 2016 - 02:22 AM

The oddity at St. Sepulchre - the full length Double Open Wood 32' - occurred because the pipes of the present organ came from its predecessor, which was much larger.  The story, as I heard it from the late John Mee (who played there regularly) was that Sir Sidney Nicholson selected the best stops from the 3 manual, 46 stop instrument.  The result is one of those small instruments that sounds like a much larger one, as in Nicholson's collaboration with Arthur Harrison for the Royal School of Church Music at Chislehurst, subsequently at Addington and Cleveland Lodge, and now at St. Alkmund, Shrewsbury.  The St. Sepulchre organ was certainly a remarkable beast and probably deserves restoration in its present form rather than recasting in a more historical manner.



#15 Vox Humana

Vox Humana

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,584 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2016 - 09:04 AM

I have always thought this one a little odd, considering that the 8' stop is useless for playing any sort of full harmony, extending as it does no lower than the B below middle C.



#16 SL

SL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 325 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:16360 Le Tatre, FRANCE

Posted 29 August 2016 - 09:09 AM

I have always thought this one a little odd, considering that the 8' stop is useless for playing any sort of full harmony, extending as it does no lower than the B below middle C.

 

 

Very odd - but a stunning case!


SL (late of Kings College, Cambridge)


#17 Colin Pykett

Colin Pykett

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 345 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2016 - 10:05 AM

I have always thought this one a little odd, considering that the 8' stop is useless for playing any sort of full harmony, extending as it does no lower than the B below middle C.

 

I was glad to read this because I've held the same view ever since I first came across this instrument many years ago.  It's good to see that an expert confirms it (I think I'm right in recalling that VH has studied the music of that period in depth).

CEP


"You can never know everything about something. But you can always know something about everything" - Amit Kumar

 

www.pykett.org.uk


#18 Vox Humana

Vox Humana

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,584 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2016 - 01:47 PM

 

 

Very odd - but a stunning case!

 

The pipes are pretty impressive too. There are some photos at the end of this document.

 

 

I was glad to read this because I've held the same view ever since I first came across this instrument many years ago.  It's good to see that an expert confirms it (I think I'm right in recalling that VH has studied the music of that period in depth).

CEP

 

Well, my interest is primarily in choral music. When it comes to organs my knowledge is very modest. Nevertheless I did play this instrument two or three times in my youth and can confirm that the Regal is useless for "normal", two-handed playing. Nor does it work if you play it up an octave, because (IIRC) of the weak trebles. The only use I could envisage for it was playing single contrapuntal lines (or two, I suppose) in consort with other instruments. The two flutes, incidentally, are very bright, penetrating and not untypical of others I have heard from this period. This was all more than 40 years ago, though.



#19 Andrew Butler

Andrew Butler

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 72 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kent, UK

Posted 30 August 2016 - 05:56 PM

I was looking at this [http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N16628] for another reason (found mention of it in a railway book of all places!) and was struck by the Vox Angelica on the Great - presumably a quiet flue and not undulating. 

 

I have come across this [http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N00393] with both a Voix Celeste and Vox Angelica on the Swell  Only one of the two was an undulant - can't remember which.  .

 

Also this http://www.npor.org.....html?RI=N15469] where the Vox Angelica is not an undulant



#20 Tony Newnham

Tony Newnham

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,208 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rugby, UK

Posted 31 August 2016 - 08:32 AM

Hi

 

I came across this instrument by Gilks when doing some NPOR updates.  St Andrew, Edburton, West Sussex

 

1mp

 

Stops:-

Diapason

Gedackt

 

Coulers:-

Pedal 16ft

Manual 16ft

Manual 8ft

Manual 4ft

Manual 2 2/3ft

Manual 2ft

 

This reminds me of the stop lists of certain early electronic organs!  Strange beast.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users