Phil T
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Posts posted by Phil T
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However, there are FREE versions of many organ works available online; including, I believe, the Widor Symphonies!
MM
PS: It's an extrordinary thought, but the entire organ-repertoire, in digital-print form, could possibly be held on just a few CD's.
Where copy right permits, there is nothing to stop you scanning in scores to programs like Sibelius. You can edit (correct any mistakes) and print out at will. I’ve not scanned any scores myself, but have printed music out using Sibelius. The quality is very good.
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I know what you mean and I do wonder what the community atmosphere at places like St Paul's and Westminster Abbey are like. It may be brilliant for all I know. Or it may not.Um.... no, actually. The reports I receive from colleagues who act as deputies for certain lay clerks occasionally give the impression that these places are not particularly happy in some respects.
PNCDs reply certainly ties in with what I’ve heard from a very good friend who also regularly deps at both of these establishments. It’s such a shame.
I thought Helensburgh in Scotland had the highest number of millionaires per square mile?
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I can't help feeling that Phil is drawing a distinction between parish churches and cathedrals that doesn't - or at least shouldn't - exist. Cathedrals are not concert halls. Both types of church have a duty of pastoral care to their communities and both should perform music to the best of their ability. I do not see any great difference between them except that the cathedrals are able to attract more able musicians than most other churches.
Similarly, though perhaps it is not for me to say (but when did I ever let that stop me?) I do not believe whether or not a musician believes in God should be an issue, so long as they are able to contribute effectively to the spiritual welfare of the place and do not sow any disharmony. A church that is interested only in believers is a barren place. In any case, if such a church exists, where does it draw the line? After all, you will barely find two Christians who believe exactly the same things.
“…whether or not a musician believes in God should be an issue, so long as they are able to contribute effectively to the spiritual welfare of the place and do not sow any disharmony.”
I couldn’t agree with you more VH. There shouldn’t be a distinction between cathedrals and parish churches but I do believe (only my opinion) there is one.
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So... in a Cathedral, spirituality can be absent, and at parish level it doesn't matter what the music's like..?
Um, err, no. Lay Vicar Choral (Lay Clark) were/are employed to sing the office; the DOM to provide music. Whether they believe in God is their choice, as long as they produce the goods. They are professional musicians at the end of the day. At a Parish level it does matter what the standard of music is like. It should be to the best of the ability of those producing it. The majority of Parish musicians aren’t professional musicians, they’re (sweeping statement) churchgoers who have a keen interest in music. Psalm 150 is their mission statement.
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Church music is more than just a job (or it should be) there is a spiritual dimension to it - and I would say that it was essential for the organist/choir-master etc. to be a practicing believer -
Every Blessing
Tony
I can understand this point of view, but is there not a danger that the church may appear to be only interested in preaching to the converted?Lest my previous post appear hypocritical, I should own up that I lost my faith some years ago. Some days I am aetheist, but mostly I would describe myself as a Christian agnostic. Either way, I continue to value the spiritual dimension I find in church and remain 100% committed in my musical ministry to serving the people of whichever church I find myself playing in and enhancing their worship as meaningfully I can.
To me music is the most important thing in the service. It has to be. I am a musician; it's my job. That is very far from saying that it is the most important thing about the service: as I have said, it is merely one element of a whole - but if it were not for the music I doubt I would ever set foot inside a church. One day I may find my faith again: I remain open to the possibility. Should the spiritual benefits I am able to offer and the possibility of my reconversion be spurned because I am not currently a practising believer?
At a parish level I’m with Tony on this one, although anyone who is prepared to find the time to run a choir and provide music should be welcomed with opened arms. At a cathedral level then the person’s musical ability should be the main thing that counts. As has been mentioned on another thread, Howells was an atheist, yet you can’t doubt his contribution to church music.
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a service is not a performance.
Church music is more than just a job (or it should be) there is a spiritual dimension to it - and I would say that it was essential for the organist/choir-master etc. to be a practicing believer - that does not prevent doing a "professional" job, and it should at least go some way towards preventing the attitude that I've heard from some organists (perhaps unconsciously) that the music is the only important thing in the service - it's part of the whole, just as prayer and preaching should be (and yes, I know some of my colleagues think that the sermon is the only important thing - and I don't agree with them either!).
I would find it very difficult to work with church musicians who have little or no interest in the Christian faith.
Every Blessing
Tony
I think I’d prefer “a service is not just performance”. Any music (sung/organ/music group) should be done to the best ability of the musicians and should provide a strong, positive lead to all. No one aspect of a service should be more important than another.
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As to the sort of voices that seem (all too often) to come from professional training, I prefer a natural sound every time. Give me 'untrained' voices rather than the BBC Daily Service Singers!
As long as the singers sing within their comfortable range and don’t force. About 15 years ago I sang with a bass who had a fine voice. He could read well (though not to Cathedral standard) and would often sing alto. His alto voice production was forced and not natural. After singing through a series of throat infections he discovered that not only had his alto voice disappeared, but he’d also lost most of the top of his bass range.
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At the risk of boring the pants of everyone I must mention St Andrew's, Plymouth, yet again. Much as it leaves me unmoved, a lot of people think it is a wonderful instrument - and that includes some famous names. Perhaps one of the last organs built in the truly "symphonic" style, it is the largest organ west of Bristol (just pipping Buckfast Abbey by three stops) and is, unlike Guildford, 100% R&D due to the previous IVP Hele being destroyed by a wartime bomb (only days after a rebuild had been completed; the new organ was never even heard in public). To me all the stops sound rather alike in much the same way as do those of a German Romantic organ, but, like those intruments, the St Andrew's organ is capable of very seamless stop crescendos. It is an organ built very much with blend in mind rather than sharp colours. I would have to concede that it does the job it was designed to do very well.
About the quality of the construction I cannot comment, except to say that it suffers niggling mechanical faults such as ciphers. Since the instrument will be 50 years old this year that is perhaps not so surprising, though it was overhauled by Deane's in 1993 (how extensively I do not know).
I went to the opening recital given by Peter Hurford. I don’t know for sure, but I got the impression that the overhaul was fairly extensive.
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Or even organists with no diploma (perhaps the majority).
I quite agree that any choir trainer that has not themself studied voice production should hang their head in shame. Surely none of us would set up as a violin teacher if we had never received formal tuition in the instrument and, hopefully, reached a reasonable level of accomplishment ourself?
Not sure however about your last sentence, cant quite decide whether its tongue in cheek. Its probably better to have childen encouraged to sing even if badly trained that not encouraged at all.
I often think that, were I a school teacher, if I spotted a pupil with a particular talent, I would see it as my duty to put them in touch with the relevant local association (or give them a list) that specialised in fostering that talent. For example, if you were to notice a good runner, surely you'd take the trouble to find out the contact for the local athletics club and point the parents in the right direction. My impression is that this rarely, if ever, happens. What a waste. This sort of behaviour (from teachers) should be what the government puts effort into correcting. Teachers in schools, particularly junior schools, can not be expected to have great skills in particular sports, drama, visual arts or music, so why not encourage them to spot potential and point children to the vast array of local organisations able to support and develop those talents? Even at secondary schools, particularly in the state sector (to which my children subscribe) the level of expertise shown by music teachers is woeful. What is it that makes school teachers believe that conducting a choir is all about putting your hands higher or lower depending upon the pitch of the notes?
I like your thinking, but if a particular school doesn’t carry out some form of singing (or sport or whatever) then you’d probably never spot the talent in the first place. Sadly, as money becomes ever tighter then cuts are made; these cuts are nearly always made to the arts. To teach music you need a degree in music, but does a degree in music qualify you to conduct a choir? Is it better to have an enthusiastic teacher running and conducting a choir or no choir at all?
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Vox, I think that was exactly the issue I was hinting at. Anybody have a clue how to solve this in a mixed comp? It wasn't a pressure we felt, in an all-boys grammar (in the 1970's).
Is there a genre of particularly 'butch' repertoire? where the boys can show off? Theatre musicals, of course...(?)
Maybe the answer is to take the choirs out of school in the teenage years. I forgot earlier to mention the excellent County Music Service (at least, it is in Staffs) in this context.
(But even there, nobody teaches the organ... one for another thread?).
It’s hard to know how to get teenage lads to sing. A musical like West side story will probably help. One of the problems is how to approach the voice breaking? Do you sing through or do you stop until things settle down? I do think it’s important to start singing at an early age.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6264899.stm
Given the importance of choirs to most us, surely this is a good thing? But does it go far enough? Do we need to promote it in secondary schools as well, or is that a lost cause in today's culture?
I hope this thread is not so off topic as to be totally irrelevant, but I thought a discussion might be interesting.
This is good news indeed. One thing that had never entered my mind is how many choral pieces people cannot sing if they’re from other religions. This just highlighted how narrow my choral field of vision is.
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Surely not?
Ah, Howells..........
The Collegium Regale Nunc Dimittis is totally sublime. It stirs the soul and pulls at the heart strings, wonderful.
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I don't doubt you are correct. My apologies for relying on a failing memory and not taking the effort to dig out a recording I bought when I made an unsuccessful effort to find out why some people esteem Howells: I'm afraid I regard having one copy of something by him as a misfortune; to have two, as you seem to have, might be regarded as carelessness.
Regards.
So my guess is, you don’t like Herbert Howells? I’m right aren’t I? (Sarcastic mode OFF). Apologies for poor English.
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Is that true? Even so, Matthew Copley would also be able to build a Willis style organ, as he was a voicer for them while it was still being run by Willis IV. Incidentally is Henry Willis IV still around; I've seen documents on the Alexandra palace website written by him which are quite recent.Hi
From conversations I had at Willis' I think he's still alive, but retired from the business.
Tony
Although I’ve not seen Mathew Copley for many a year, his company “Organ Design & Construction Ltd” is (as far as I know) still trading.
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Since so many contributors are not known to him, and because of nommes-de-plume cannot be identified as serious organists or designers he has wondered about the validity of the site.
I hope that Pierre will continue to read and post on this forum.
I don’t see why not being a serious organist or designer should preclude anyone from being a member and posting on this site. Much of what is posted here is opinion not fact.
An interest in and a passion for the pipe organ should be sufficient.
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Anyone know what's going on please......?
Paul aka Cynic is the one to ask. Doh, just noticed he pipped me to the post.
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Shipley again:
"Radio 3 gives us money to broadcast from the cathedrals and college chapels of the land with the proviso that the musical standard within the worship is kept as high as possible. After all, we may be following a recorded concert from the Proms, say, by the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Simon Rattle. If the music in the service sounds untidy, under rehearsed or over ambitious, Radio 3 will quite rightly want to know the reason. That's why we have to keep an ear continually to what's going on in the country's choral establishments - and why we may need to steer clear of certain places until things improve..."
From memory, there are some choral establishments who rarely if ever have featured in the R3 CE slot, and some who did at one time but now seem not to. Any ideas why please?In the 1st category come: Carlisle, Bradford, Bangor, St Asaph, Brecon
In the 2nd category: Chelmsford, Llandaff, Leeds PC, St Mary Warwick, Jesus Cambridge
There are probably others.......
A friend of mine started his cathedral singing career at one of the establishments listed. Without going into detail, what is highlighted in bold is one of the main reasons why this particular establishment hasn’t had much air time since.
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In business, slagging off your employer in public is usually considered to be gross misconduct, and anybody doing so would normally be subject to summary dismissal. There have been a number of such cases in the news recently.
Anyway, how would you feel about your vicar making critical and offensive comments about you on his blog?
To be honest with you, it just wouldn’t bother me at all. We’re all entitled to our own opinion. As long as what was said wasn’t fabricated, then I don’t see a problem. As to what’s offensive, well that’s down to the individual.
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What a bitchy post. I know the organist who put that advertisement in and your description of him is nothing like the person in question.
A little un-charitable may be, but we don’t know the gent (assumption) in question. Having read the ad, I must admit, I had similar thoughts to MM (Colin).
An intuitive, stylish and passionate liturgical accompanist, I play tunes known and loved by congregations after services (not esoteric organ music).
A bold statement, one that presupposes that the vast majority of the congregation dislike “real” organ music. I can only speak for myself, but esoteric organ music (played both before and after the service) was what got me interested in the organ and church music.
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Wasn't it shortly after the Truro 'restoration'?
I think so but I’m not 100% sure. David Briggs did proudly show the nation (well those who watch Songs of Praise) the (then) unique “Divided Pedal”.
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Happy Christmas to you all.
===============I thought it was just me!
I also hate that dreadful "Three kings from Persian lands afar" by Cornelius.....talk about ways to murder a good chorale tune.
I actually played a largely FRENCH repertoire this Christmas.......I have reasons for stumbling thus.............
Bacon & eggs again, I suppose.
I knew I should have gone to Prague with Marek!
MM
I must say, I rather like the Cornelius, each to their own I guess? Do you dislike “Christus” by Felix Mendelssohn as well?
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Shine Jesus Shine - Though playing the Chorus entirely in 2nd inversion chords can be amusing (using the 'tune' as the root note.)
I remember a Songs of Praise from Truro when David Briggs was there, Shine Jesus Shine was played with such panache, glissandi and the like, I've never heard it sound so good. Have tried to recreate that ever since! Not sure whether it was DB playing, or the then assistant, which was probably Simon Morley, anyone remember this?
Yes, I remember it well. They also filmed in the organ loft and we were treated (David Briggs playing) to an extract of the Vierne 1st symphony Final.
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I too have heard that CD-Rs degrade sooner than CDs. I have never yet had a CD degrade, but have certainly got some CD-Rs that have become unusable.
From what I'm told (by my son who has a sound recording degree), older CD players can't play CD-Rs, though any modern ones should be able to. That said, I have a newish but cheap bedside clock/radio/CD player that doesn't like them at all. The instructions do warn you not to use them. So too do the instructions for the CD changer in my car. The latter has played them OK, but one day it decided to lock up and sulk. It wouldn't play anything or eject the CDs. The man who fixed it for me reckoned it was the CD-R among the genuine CDs that was the culprit.
What CD-Rs play on what CD players can be quite a lottery. My old CD player played a copy of a Red Hot Chilli Peppers album but didn’t play a friends copy of The Darkness (maybe a blessing).
If you are concerned about the longevity of the recording, what about purchasing the CD-R, and copying the tracks to your computer? they can be copied in flac which has no audio loss, and won't degrade over time. A simple solutionUntil your hard drive stops working, you get a bad sector, etc. Maybe I’m wrong, but flash drives seem to be the most stable (computer) storage device out there?
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We had Wachet Auf as the 'in' music at our wedding many years ago. I think my father was the only one who got the joke. You have to know the text, you see! Do I need to explain?
Well it was your wedding night I guess.
Sarlat Cathedral, Dordogne
in The Organ
Posted
International Standard (SI) units and scientific notation are two separate things. The International Standard (SI) unit for length is the meter. In scientific notation it’s convention to use 10x10 to 0 (unit), 10x10-3 (milli), 10x10-6 (micro), 10x10-9 (nano) etc, so you’re right, cm isn’t scientific notation, but then this isn’t science.