kropf

This fits all nicely into other topics on this board, talking about "integrity" of an instrument. Bad instruments might force you to search hidden pathes of registration, but the good ones do allow you anyway. I know that Andrea Marcon (gifted organist and leader of those Venice Baroque Players) played a Frescobaldi toccata on the beautiful Huss/Schnitger organ of Stade - being happy with the trumpet 16' and another 8' flue stop! I have been taught by "my" current instrument, the Neuenfelde Schnitger. A non-organbuilder has mounted new stop labels some decades ago (he was the organist's husband and worked at the army as a tank officer...!), and (as it might be the use in tanks) he mounted them UNDER the stop knobs. When entering service here, I often pulled wrong stops by error because of that - but this coincidental registrations always worked, too!

Many thanks to heva and Mr Lucas (for pics and links) in the name of those, who are not so familiar with the site and unable to reach it easily, but enjoy to follow the discussion! This way, internet really makes sense... May we later hope for audio samples of the first voicing attempts, please?

More details, please! (As this is an issue for my own situation...)

Thank you so far! And, regarding the (recent designs of the) pneumatic motor of such EP systems: Is also the "release", the "note-off movement", powered (like in Cavaillé-Coll's barker lever)? Or didn't I get it right, and, as Cynic told, that a power motor is being "exhausted" - so the "note-on movement" is caused by a depressurization? (in German: "Abstromprinzip" opposite to "Zustromprinzip" - pressurization to make the note sound)... Thanks for more information!

Sorry, my question possibly would fit better into the "Nuts and bolts" section, but being not so much acquainted with electrically controlled instruments (but will be in future, therefore I'm asking)...: On the Tickell website, it is announced that the new Worcester Quire Organ will have electroPNEUMATIC action. Could Mr Lucas perhaps explain more, or anybody with interesting answers to my question? I mean, why is having pneumatic elements as part of the action (will there be slider chests?) more suitable than having only electromagnetic pallet drives? From continental view, pneumatic action was suitable for those older cone-chest actions, where heavy loads had to be moved. So how about larger english organs? Thanks and greetings

I don't know, if the meant Radio 3 is a "normal" public Radio (BBC?). But regarding dutch standard radio programs, and certainly "less attractive" classical music like organ music or music where the composer did not die yet or less than 75 years ago, can hardly be heard in the Netherlands. When I've been to Haarlem last summer, there were massive complaints about a situation, which seemed to be similar to the decrease of quality in German radio programs. The Dutch colleagues I've been talking to have switched to french or some satellite programs. For organ music lovers, web radio is really a great thing! Probably the founders of that Dutch webradio suffered themselves from the public radio programmes....

Thanks for your thoughts! Well, I could lighten my burden for myself, as I'm Austrian, and they tend to use the "we were victims, too"-excuse, but.... Regarding this "penitence" term - the word is maybe not the best choice - I was thinking of a phrase by Anton Heiller (1923-79), which he wrote in an article in 1950 - I'll try a translation: "The language, which is demanded by today's mankind, is less a powerful, pathethic or a devotionally regarding and sweet one, but merely a clear, harsh, all misery and distress of the time reflecting and awakening language, which is, first of all, uncompromisingly true." "Die Sprache, die der heutigen Menschheit not tut, ist weniger eine machtvolle, pathetische oder fromm betrachtende und süsse, vielmehr eine klare, herbe, auf alle Not und Bedrängnis der Zeit eingehende, aufrüttelnde Sprache, die vor allem kompromisslos wahr ist." (Anton Heiller: "Neue Kirchenmusik", Musica orans II/1950/4, 5, p.16) Perhaps one has to add - as we already talked about Hindemith's humour - that Heiller was a real Viennese person - you know, on their central cemetery, there is that legendary sepultural museum (great site!)... I mean, though hilarious here and there, he was also melancholic, and his last larger work, the "Vesper" (1977) contains a WONDERFUL, nearly late romantic hymnus for the choir, and three interesting larger organ sections, but the last one extended with a coda with one of the most straining, at the same moment depressive and aggressive final chords I know in organ music.

And many readers here might smile (sigh?) at the fact, that during his Berlin period (1927-35), he regularly invited friends on sunday to play with the model railroad...!

Hello! Nice topic, could have appeared in a German forum!!! Also on THIS side of the pond, this music is widely ignored, too! Let me pick up some names: Hindemith, great sonatas! Take the 2nd as starter (is much more popular than the 1st or the 3rd) and play it a little bit more lively, regarding articulation, than indicated. You know his nice music for chamber orchestra and organ? Sounds great until the organ starts! It is VERY strange that a musician and humurous player like Hindemith (listen to his string quartet recordings) believed, that organ music must be that boring as it appears, if you just play what is written! A shame for his contemporary organists, who where not able (due to reason being currently discussed on these pages here) to show him more of our instrument. Or he always met the "wrong" people... Hugo Distler - sounds great on every historic or neo-baroque organ. Anton Heiller (though post WW II period) - his Tanz-Toccata is widely known, but some other pieces are also interesting and of a more "serious" touch. Siegfried Reda is very underestimated, but I don't really know his music. Johann Nepomuk David: Try the first, say, 8 or 10 volumes of the "Choralwerk", later works become really difficult for the audience.... Franz Schmidt was mentioned, I'm just practising his Toccata C-major (universal edition) - very interesting patterns, themes (classical sonata form with two themes), and a FINE piece for concert and service! Not without technical challenges, but there are enough gifted players here... [btw, linking to other topics: Fritz Heitmann visited Vienna under Schmidt's tenure of being head of the academy of music. They became friends...] In general, there is much difference (IMO) between pre-war and post-war organ music. The first has a portion of enthusiasm in it, and it contains certainly the search for a larger "vision" of something, often searching in the musical past and adapting registrations and textures (e. g. Distler). Needless to say, that searching for a vision in the 30ies was fashionable and a need for many, and we know the outcome and the idea, that succeeded. So, dealing with this music is not easy, certainly in Germany. I myself am starting to investigate if it is possible to get really musical results out of that epoque, without being charged for nostalgy for 30ies politics - or without being held-up with talking about the political orientation of all those composers themselves, who always have been, more or less, part of the system, as we would be today under liking circumstances. [To make it clear: I just mean, what would I have done if I'd been church musician and composer in 1933's Germany? Would my biography stand the judgement of later generations...?] The post-war music mostly carries a sort of penitence atmosphere. When already after WW I artists refused to paint or compose idylls, much more of that attitude was present after WW II. In the music, there was a nearly complete absence of triads, and in those decades much of the music may have served fine as a valve for the public's emotions. But in the 70ies, for typical German audiences it developed that "contemporary music has to hurt", and reacting to this in the last decade and still today, there is a noticeable movement to catch up with "nice" music, and you would be amazed if you knew how many performances of music by John Rutter a. o. of that kind are taking place here. People are longing for music that is new AND one loves to listen to. And the wide majority of German organ music from the 20ies, 30ies, 40ies (few existing), 50ies, 60ies and 70ies is definitely not the latter. That's why German organists do not play this music much more often than those in the anglo-american regions... In some months I will take over a large instrument with material mostly from 1938, and that is the reason why I'm asking myself if there are more things to discover in 20th century music, and certainly German music...

Just want to add to my post above: To see the images on the named website, click the small thumbnails on the left. Secont thing: I want to invite you to listen again to Heitmann (URLs some posts above) and then to the samples on that Berlin website: Andreas Sieling, recently elected cathedral organist, plays the Carillon de Westminster, but he obviously has little problems with playing precisely. And then note, that he "forgets" to audibly separate the loud from the more silent section - reverberation fills everything up, and a small section of the music really disappears. I heard the same thing there in a concert by Ursula Hauser from Switzerland. She played Mendelssohn Sonatas, and, IMHO, did not adapt here playing in any way to that instrument (she was on concert tour). You all know the f minor sonata, third movement, this recitativo scenes: After the fortissimo chords, each time she started much too early with the next solo entry, which was still under cover of the reverberation of the chords. I have never been to St Paul's Cathedral, but the situation must be similar... The microphones of the Sieling recording obviously were set up on the loft, the balance is not fine (check the Bach Air clip) and action noise is too much. I do not want to say anything against Mr Sieling, but to me, the Heitmann recordings of 1940 seem to be the more impressive thing!

As posted in another topic, this vast rebuild was already suggested by Heitmann in April 1941 and worked out by Rudolf von Beckerath. There schould be 115 stops on V/P, the Sauer pipework should have been partially re-used, the new action should be a mix-up of the existent pneumatic elements and a new electric console. Everybody knows why this rebuild never was realized. And even with great respect for R v Beckerath, we are happy about that (not about the reasons, of course....). But under supervision of Hans Henny Jahnn (he provided the scaling), the Rückpositiv has been altered in 1932 like this: Sauer 1905: Flötenprinzipal 8' Flöte 8' Gedackt 8' Dulciana 8' Zartflöte 4' Heitmann/Jahnn/Sauer 1932: Gedackt 8' Terzian 2r Sifflöte 1' Cymbel 3r Krummhorn 8' And the Pedal Organ: new Mixture on the place of the Violon 16', which remained preserved within the instrument. Originally, a Sesquialtera was planned in place of the Terzian. Asking the permission for this rebuild, Heitmann wrote to the authorities in 1932: "In the past ten years [...] the views of organ sound and organ specification have changed noticeably". He really talked about a Rückpositiv in that letter, though it was originally intended as a more decorative element, filled with pipework which could serve as accompaniment for soloists on the organ loft. Heitmann "sold" this rebuild not only as improvement for the important concert series, but also for congregational singing, to give the congregation stops which would provide easy-to-follow leading of the melodic line. He offered to pay for the rebuild from the income of his concerts and was just asking for support. During the restoration of the cathedral in the 80ies/90ies, except some details, the organ was restored to its 1904 state. Heitmann died in 1953, thus he experienced the GDR just for four years. Following Website offers Images (impressive the pics of the destroyed cathedral) and audio samples ("Hörprobe"), its in German, but you should be able to manage it... Berlin Cathedral Organ

Thank you so much for that link - I went into the program a little, but time did not allow yet to hear it completely..... I knew about "pipedreams" in principle but did not know that there is the possibility to trace Iarchived airings! Great to have such an institution. Don't know about other reader's home countries, but in Germany (and Austria), there is a noticeable decrease of organ music in radio programs, as all responsibles are staring on the "quota" (which always will be a small one for organ music, more or less), and even around or after midnight you will hardly find a program which offers more than archived short Orgelbüchlein recordings of local "masters" to fill gaps in the program... I share John's impression, and want to talk about the first Heitmann sample above: The opening phrase of the dorian toccata sounds nice, not only because of the articulation pattern of "Two notes tied, two notes open", which is also fashionable today and against, say, the Dupré all-legato style [though it can be as boring as legato, if not slightly modified throughout the playing]. But it is even more interesting because of the little stressing of the first sixteenth upon the first and the third beat - today, mostly appreciating that kind of playing if not applied in too much, we would refer to historic sources talking about "good" and "bad" notes, "quantitas intrinseca" etc. But Heitmann, Straube a. o. certainly did not know anything about that! They simply FELT the need for such a way of playing, and that is a sign for being a gifted musician, IMHO...!

On regular duty I do not command any combination system - as I regularly serve on the Neuenfelde Schnitger only! But in external concerts I do something similar to your crescendo arrangement. I try to have at least a crescendo series at hand, than perhaps some solo registrations or other interesting coulours, depending on the content of the concert, and depending on the Setzer layout. Some offer 0-9 and then layer up/down ("Ebene"), but e.g. on modern Riegers I also found 1-12 and layers A-H or so... My last Setzer-project was three weeks ago, playing live soundtrack to Fritz Lang's silent movie "Metropolis" - for 114 minutes of music I used only 10 (of 4000...) combinations on the Beckerath of Christuskirche Othmarschen, Hamburg, his first instrument (III/ca. 35, relocated in the church, but dealt with respect) - and it consisted of a nine-stage crescendo and one "wurlitzer"-sound (reeds, tremulant and aliquots) for the night club scenes... Later addition: To the community! This has gone much too far off topic (originally Worcester), sorry for that - will stop behaving like that...

Barry, don't forget the catholics! In my home cathedral in Klagenfurt, Austria (certainly not Germany, but you find liking tradition there), EVERYTHING was accompanied, the vocal parts of the whole bunch of Mozart, Haydn, Schubert, Masses, I played the Dvorak D major, the Liszt Missa Choralis, and I played dozens of these masses of the "Caecilianer" (bavarian and bohemian stuff from around 1880 to 1910, neo palestrinian, but sometimes very "pastoral", especially around christmas...), where the organ reduction was the conductor's score at the same time, and depending on the budget, you could engage real violins, clarinets,.... or replace them on the keyboard. And of course, filling out the gaps produced by missing or failing choir members, was your duty, always with a foot on the swell pedal - if there was any! Mostly the only way, on those our organs to follow the choir dynamically then, was to work with the number of keys pressed, the texture of the accompaniment (regarding playing in octaves or high or low keyboard range) and to find the best points where to slide with the hands (and not both at the same time) from one manual to the other. So somehow "best Anglican tradition", but SADLY without the appropriate instruments. (Would have worked much better on authentic organs from 1880 to 1910, but already in my youth most of them have disappeared...) I agree, on the base that I share the idea of having a palette of dynamics from pp to ff on the pistons... (and I do in most occasions! )

The thing is - let's imagine following situation: I am improvising and in preparation I have filled the, say, six divisionals of a division with, say, 13 stops, with combination I found presumably useful. No I'm playing on other divisions, and while doing that, I decide to have a new registration on that certain division - perhaps a solo mixture [never say, it would never make sense...] - and, say, the last registration on that certain division was a 12 stop tutti, so the DIVISIONAL CANCEL would ease removing everything to pull out the single mixture stop afterwards... Many words, but situations like this I could imagine, and have had the problems on organs without divisionals...

Yeah. DJB - David Briggs? He was consulted regarding the pistons for that Hamburg-Beckerath refurbishment! Cochereau - he did have appels, didn't he? I mean, every divisional help is useful, and a cancel facilitates major registration changes on a division, which could not be foreseen. That's why I like them for Impro. That is true for the older instruments. But since approx. 20 years, in new organs you will only find the anglo-american system as you described it just above. But note, there is one advantage of the old mini toggle switches - you could CHANGE a registration, which is not active. Requires a flexible mind, sure... Therefore I also like "prolongements" as available on some Cavaillé-Colls and Walckers, and also coming up again occasionally on new instruments (switch with "solenoids off" function) but there are more and more fellows here (like me...) that realize, that the finest form of congregational singing is that following anglican high church tradition! I often take out my "Carols from King's" DVD, my CDs from Westminster Abbey with hymns and psalms, and was never touched by church music that much as when I attended a eucharist and mattins there... So let's watch for the advent of divisional pistons on the continent

St Marien Lübeck, the large Kemper V/101, has two identical stop jambs (right term?), I mean, the complete stop controls are on the left and duplicated on the right side of the console

Hello Pierre and others, just dropped in again, reading about pistons... I want to state that there is VERY GREAT DEMAND for divisional cancels - it is when you're improvising!! During my studies in Vienna, in a cellar room of the academy there was an abandoned 3m console by Rieger-Jägerndorf (now Czech Republic, then Hungaro-Austrian Monarchy), tubular pneumatic. It had divisional cancels, though situated within the rank of rocker tablets of the normal stop controls. The cancel tablets were named "Zerstörer" - "Destroyer!" You all know that divisional stop controls are nearly unknown in organs of the German speaking regions. I was so happy to find such devices in Altenberg Cathedral (Klais, IV/80+, twin consoles), where I had a concert... Regarding improvisation, general pistons ("Setzer") always call for the well thought-out preparation of a "take over" manual [which keeps its registration from one combination to the next], if you want to have seamless changes. With the years, I learned to prepare such combinations, and to recommend them to students, but how much better are divisionals! The large Beckerath in Hamburg St Petri has been recently refurbished, and it got divisional controls after English models, due to the interest the current DOM pays to anglican music. Whereever I get influence to coming builds/rebuilds of larger instruments, I ask my colleagues to think about divisional controls... On my Hauptwerk "Flight Simulator" with its St Anne's Moseley mock-up, I discovered divisional crescendo switches for the first time. Probably useless for written music, but - on larger instruments - maybe of large potential for improvisation, and certainly not only in historizing ones, related to any neo-romantic style... Are such switches typical for English EP instruments?

full topic subtitle: "...related to the development of the American Classical Organ" - Sorry, also for missing URLs in first version of this post!! Related with two other threads (Rediscovery of north german baroque organs; and E. P. Biggs), the name of Fritz Heitmann recently appeared in this forum, and MM was interested to learn more. For me, too, his name was known but not really the personality behind. As I am going to take over a post with a large instrument designed and inaugurated by Heitmann, I started some investigation. I was very impressed to hear him play on historic recordings of 1940 and 1944, made on the large Sauer organ of Berlin cathedral from 1905 (4 manuals, 113 stops, fully tubular pneumatic action). Heitmann (1891-1953) has grown up with the small Schnitger organ of Hamburg-Ochsenwerder and was later educated by Karl Straube in Leipzig. This education led to the fact that he became a real Bach evangelist, but on the other hand it was impossible for him not to deal intensively with the music of Reger. Concert reviews from Europe and the US state that his performances must have been very impressive. And yes, you will ask, how did he come through the Nazi era...? Well, he was definitely no resistance fighter. But he was a very christian person and kept his full post as cathedral organist, which caused authorities to reduce his teaching duties. But he was also undersigner of documents, regarding the future of german church music, which, seen today, were of very doubtful content. Heitmann was professor at the Berlin conservatory, and he toured the US in 1939 and 1950. Both dates strengthen the impression that his capabilities where found to be appropriate to keep the last or build the first bridges between German and US-american music culture. I post this here, because on his tours he became friend of Edward Power Biggs and Arthur Howes, two important persons of the American "Orgelbewegung". Heitmann referred to that term later: "Wir brauchen eine permanente Bewegung um die Orgel" - "Regarding the organ, we need a PERMANENT movement". He played music down to Praetorius on instruments, which would be judged by today's players as absolutely inadequate for music older than 1800. His programmes included contemporary masters, mostly from Germany, but he played e. g. Howells, Alain, Messiaen and swedish composers, too. He was also a demanded teacher. His few essays on organ building warned from pure historicism, but appealed for the search for the very organ. In today's words, he would be a lover of the "the best from both worlds" phrase. He would have loved the American classical organ (he was closely connected to D. Harrison) and the finer of the larger new instruments of the last decades in all over Europe, perhaps his Bach focus would prefer English and German designs before French... I think, the compact disc is sold out, so I hope not to get charged for posting some mp3-files for those of you more interested. Listen to a section form Bachs Dorian Toccata, which comes out quite articulated and with fresh speed - note the acoustically VERY appropriate gap (incredible reverberation there...) before the first Ruckpositiv section Prelude in b minor is very fresh (not to say fast), too From the Toccata 565 d-minor there is the opening of the fugue - some small mistakes there and a sort of haste. The recording is undated, but tonally it refers to the later ones of february 1944 - maybe not the best time to make recordings in Berlin... From the g-minor fantasy 542 also the opening with a large gap before the second idea - note the fine 8'-chorus... It's interesting that there is a nearly complete absence of pedal reeds except the final chords. To hear the larger reeds, we have to turn to Heitmann's second musical root, Max Reger. Here is a collage of sections from Introduktion & Passacaglia d-minor. Hope you enjoyed it, comments welcome...

Oh yes, I will answer about Fritz Heitmann soon, as time permits. And I just want to say that I love MM's descriptions of today's Bach options - I was on location when John Scott Whiteley recorded 21st century Bach here in Neuenfelde - a very special experience, though a nice one (but this is covered by another thread in this forum...)... Regarding Koopman, I want to post something nice (at least I would say it's nice, though he himself is angry about the whole story...), and first I want to state he is a really nice guy and vital musician... but: In Duderstadt, near Göttingen, Lower Saxony, Germany, two churches have recently cancelled Koopman-Concerts for the coming Händel-Festival there, due to the reason that they fear that Koopman will damage the instruments!! Users of a german organ forum have collected several occasions where this happened, including myself, being whitness to the scene in 2002, that Jürgen Ahrend himself pulls out a key of a small italian organ restored by him and situated in Lübeck Cathedral, which gets stuck several times, standing side by side with the player, Mr. Koopman! And the instrument worked perfectly before and after Ton's performance... I would never talk about bad technique or bad taste (though discussable), only about "too much inner energy"...

I was fascinated when I recently discovered a remastered recording of Fritz Heitmann playing the Sauer organ of Berlin Cathedral in 1940 and 1944: Incredible vitality and speed, really at the edge of good taste [close to the style of some Ton Koopman recordings...], but well articulated, too - and what a performance on this fully tubular pneumatic action! In 43 minutes playing time there is only one unlucky situation in the Pedal, the rest remains practically free of wrong notes, and without any editing. Maybe that this "speed factor" supported Heitmann and Biggs in becoming friends during Heitmanns 1950 US tour....?

The building of Magdeburg Cathedral Organ has proceeded - just to inform those who did not follow the last photo updates posted by Barry on his website. I think it is a really great specification, Barry. Is it going to be that one on your website, or will there be alterations? I was curios about the two celeste stops in the swell - have you thought (of course you have...) about having one of these on the Positive? I like the presence of stops with higher pitches in the pedal - maybe there are rather few pieces of written music that demand them, but they are so fine for improvisation, und much better than a Sw4'/Ped coupler... You told us that you will get the Kowalshyn levers - on each division? On the IFO recording of the Lausanne instrument by Fisk, at the Duruflé toccata, the Recit seems to be a bit late and its attack a bit muddy... Anyway, are you willing to tell us more about the action of Magdeburg and the involved solutions to control 20 and more stops per division? How many chests, how many pallets per note....? Thanks Charly

Of course he is! We had last contact some months ago, and he was even on a visit to Neuenfelde two years ago. We could not really examine our organ then, because it was wrapped in as we had the restoration of the ceiling paintings... Brombaugh was in Germany to collaborate with Harald Vogel after his retirement. Together with him he did a sort of "remake" of von Beckerath's Documentation tour in 1946, when he was asked to research all historic instruments of the then Hannover Landeskirche, the "lutheran diocese" of Hanover, later extended to "Niedersachsen" (the province of Lower Saxony). So, Brombough was here and is willing to share - we were even (and still are) considering taking him as a consultant for the Neuenfeldce restoration, which is approaching reality more and more. I will ask him directly about his thoughts on our subject - thank you for that hint, MM! And any help from Brombaugh associates is welcome, too. By the way, a fascinating book on the rediscovery of the classical organ in the 20th century was written some years ago by Roman Summereder, austrian pupil of Anton Heiller and now himself professor of organ in Vienna. The title is "Aufbruch der Klänge" (The departure of sounds), Edition Helbling, Innsbruck. Great stuff, but in German only...

Very great! I love to remember the Holmes/Watson-Quotation from the upper section of this thread.... Perhaps somebody (or MM again??) is able to make findings of similar meaning regarding the Arthur Howes / E. P. Biggs "movement" to North Germany.... Greetings from the Altes Land... KBK Btw, but not really OT: From July 1st the post of organist of Neuenfelde Church is available...!

Regarding the guestbook of the Hamburg-Neuenfelde Schnitger Organ, starting in 1954: We have several entries from Arthur Howes, starting in 1954, visiting us with his Organ Institute (Andover?), and we have entries by Edward Power Biggs, who made his first recordings here in 1955. I found out, that Fritz Heitmann, Cathedral Organist of Berlin (who grew up with playing the Schnitger Organ pf Hamburg-Ochsenwerder as a teenager and then studied with Karl Straube, Leipzig), toured through the US in 1939 and in 1950. It is documented that in 1950 he met E. P. Biggs and A. Howes, was privately invited by each of them. Maybe that he told them about the still preserved character and beauty of the countryside instruments listed in the start of this topic ("Altes Land" region)? Heitmann was in close contact with Hans Henny Jahnn either, and with Rudolf von Beckerath, who made, as a consultant before 1941, suggestions for rebuilding the large Sauer Organ of the Berliner Dom (as did Jahnn before - Jahnn "baroqueized" the small Ruckpositiv division). A question to the readers: When did Arthur Howes start his important organ study tours to Europe? What or who influenced him? many thanks, KBK