kropf

I found another example in the recent update of the Klais HP: http://www.klais.de/m.php?sid=127 Here is the spec Most likely, the Solo Division is the augmentation (making need for a new console, too), and the rest is a restoration.

I recently heard the large Ladegast of Schwerin Cathedral (Scroll down for spec and image. I think, the Man. 32' starts but from TC). The 32' added - uhh... sort of dark majesty. But it was on the edge to get tiring, even if the piece was not too long (and in a somewhat pleno registration). For the trained listener, it was always audible, when the pedal paused. Try the effect yourself, if you have a soft bourdon 16' (not the Ped Subbass!) at hand, and play a chord in the bass octave and together the same chord in a full registration on another manual an octave higher.

Revoicing Yes.Spec change Yes.Enlarging Yes.Redesign and new action Yes (but not so often as the rest). I tried to find some examples on the web, preferably with English content, but I failed. * We see revoicing by enlarging the pipe mouth (height), stabilizing and enlarging the wind system * We see small changes (omit the 2nd mixture on GT instead of a new Viola 8', maybe the first string in that orgen (Universitätskirche Rostock, Schuke 1965)) * We see additions of auxiliares, mostly enclosed, sometimes with HP stops, occasionally with electric valves for each pipe, so extension use is possible * We see installation of older pipework, formerly on cone-chest, within new pipework and on slider chest * Where the 2nd point happens, often an additional all-electric console is beeing purchased, if the rest of the organ not already was electric. In Karlsruhe, Klais refurbishes a Klais of the 50ies, adding a new division on ep slider, but trying to keep the old qualities. Search for "Waldkirchen" among the Organs list - Here the Eisenbarth firm integrated pipework of a previous Eisenbarth into a new instrument, the ranks changed divisions, where moved some notes down for scale enlargement etc. Philipp Klais will be present at the Rostock Kolloquium, where exactly such questions will be raised, regarding the large Sauer of 1938 and earlier. It will be interesting.

Percussive it really is/was.... pc, what do you think was first? The inspiration by the new chamades? Or has Cocherau always been the guy to use hammering "raddaddaddatt" motives, and did he install what he needed to express himself.....? I have much respect for him, as I would never dare to play in such a way. But someone has to. A pity that so many players tried to copy, but on much lower level, and then those sounds really get penetrating, as do so many of reed and chamade stops commissioned by such guys....

...a very interesting discussion, once more, and covering common problems not exclusively related to Howells. Those composers where one would like to ask "Did the world really need them?"... Anyway, I am just talking about the general phenomenon, as I have no impression of Howells' organ music yet. But the contributions here will make me start searching for the LP I brought back from GB nearly 30 years ago, beeing on a school visit in Norwich - "The organ works of Herbert Howells" it says on the cover, which shows vaults only (Norwich?) but no organ. Cant' remember the player. I once played the record then, but at those mid-teenage time time it would have been hopeless even with a more attractive composer. But I will dig it out and listen again!

It means "Pedal divide", but available on General Console only.

Yes, as discussions and shared experiences on German Websites show, if there is a choice of two consoles, one mechanical close to the organ but "remote" to the usual places of things to happen (concert, liturgy) and an electric one downstairs, the latter is beeing chosen more frequently. Same at many concert hall organs. The upper mechanical console often collects dust and gets unplayable. (I know it from the Klais Altenberg and the Eisenbarth in Passau Dom, that the mech consoles were faulty when I was on a visit there....) The answer to heva's initial question should be: Allowing an organ beeing built as a real electrically controlled instrument maybe would still be a shame in Germany. It will wake up the public mind which will start to ask: And why did we throw away our previous EP instrument? In Karlsruhe, Klais rebuilds an own EP organ and even adds more EP soundboards. Here in Rostock St. Marien (own topic), we will see, but also here it is likely to keep the EP instrument. And I would do pretty much to make it a fascinating one, if circumstances will allow...!

Hello all! In the German Orgelforum there was a link to the Homepage of the New Organ of Regensburg Cathedral. This is a very impressive church in North-East Bavaria. It houses a quite large Mathis organ hidden behind the Altar. As time went by (and certain organs were built elsewhere...), the hesitation which was tied to the pure architecture of the cathedral faded away, and the musicians started not only dreaming, but talking about an additional "real" cathedral organ. It is currently beeing installed by Rieger of Austria. It is quite a large instrument, and stunning first photopgraphs of the installation are available now here. Wait for the gallery images to be loaded and click the first one. The organ is fully suspended from the roof, like Cologne Cathedral. But the organist will reach this one not by a long walk through the roof, but will get an elevator, which will be invisible when not in use. Even without translated text, the pictures are very interesting. Note one of the blowers beeing installed on top of the instrument, and the installation of the mechanical console in the height. There will be a general console to control both the Rieger and the Mathis. Some images indeed show the Mathis "Chororgel". For the specification, see here. Greetings, KBK

Yes, get to Klosterneuburg, if possible! I hesitated to talk about the Wienerfeld italian Organ, as it is a little abroad within the city. But the contrast of the instrument and the modern church is interesting, too. (I played a service there, where the priest forgot to say the final benediction at the end of the mass, realizing it already half on the way back to the vestry). The Reil and the Rieger in Augustinerkirche show one common mastership in two faces: Putting very much in a too small case and making it really work. And this, together with perfect action technique, I would say about the Cathedral's organ, too, but it's sound doesn't touch me. If you are arranging organ visits, do use a title/degree, I you have any! (Or invent one...) Austrian's love it and would judge you just by the number of doctoral degrees you already have. If you are of royal blood, you should mention it, too, of course... Do you come by plane or train? A very colourful organ landscape is Oberösterreich, the state around Linz (EU cultural capital of 2009). They have many different instruments there, though mostly behing original or pseudo baroque facades. An impressive Marcussen in Linz Neuer Dom, and many organs by German, Swiss and Dutch builders. They had always so much work there, that they could feed the local builders and engage foreigners, too. But Oberösterreich would be another story. Enjoy Vienna! (If I would go there now again, I would spend most time with "café hopping", tasting Bohemian and Austrian bakery)

Interesting Organs: Konzerthaus (as said) Votivkirche (Large Walcker around 1880) St. Michael / Michaelerkirche (Large baroque Instrument from 1714) There are some better (and more worse) tubular pneumatics around, but nothing really worth the challenge of arranging a visit. By the moment I would not call any of the new organs really fascinating. Maybe the Spaeth ACC-inspired thing in the Universitätskirche - it was not there when I left Vienna. St. Stephan, the Cathedral, with its Rieger, is worth a visit, but the organ does not feature anything of particular interest. (IMO....) The Karlskirche is a very impressive building and houses a smaller organ having material from baroque and "Biedermeier" (early romantic) times. Maybe anything else springs into my mind, but so much as a first reply.

I just returned from the organ loft, finishing the first stage of a difficult but important work: Wanting to have the entire instrument tuned permanently, I had to do something with the seven reed stops I can not tune without somebody else at the keyboard. The remaining twelve reed stops can be tuned by myself alone, by moving magnets or lifting actuators with one and tuning with the other hand. So today, I finished an additional wiring for the swell, allowing me to ignite the magnets from within the swell box. It is not done properly, but of course reversible and without any soldering, to prevent any influence on the present material. And - I decided to close the expressions of the major reeds (Trumpet 8', Fagott 16') as much as possible, to reduce the extreme brilliance which doesn't fit to the rest. And I was given a nearly new reed chorus! Playing Hohlflöte 8' with Trompete 8', optional added Fagott 16' and Progressio III-IV, I got something quite similar to a Tuba chorus! What a joy each time one takes place at the console again, after walking aroudn and up/down the organ several times (changing stops during tuning has to be done from the console...), but this time the reward was really a big one. So this sound will get onto the "To be recorded"-list. Although I would not strive too much to make the Giesecke reeds fit into this instrument, I am looking forward to play with a much more versatile reed chorus on swell. (The 8' Hautbois there is already OK in its original state). @Pierre: You are absolutely right in making the difference between neo-baroque and neo-classical, and that this one belongs to the latter category.

Dear friends, let me first thank for the warm welcome of the website update. And thanks to our host for his inspired comments, beeing able to serve as an opening to ANY project which talks about an organ which is not definitely clear to be abandoned. Even in Neuenfelde it was not so easy to decide, what to do. My successor there has some closer relation to the circle around Harald Vogel than I had. A small symposium already took place there, and said in general, the organ seems to be restored to the Schnitger state, if I got it right. Rostock is more difficult, but with one exception: While playing Neuenfelde, you are permanently longing for a better future for the instrument, whatever one. While playing Rostock, you can really have many joyful moments without that desire. And while every concert in Neuenfelde was a challenge of making the impossible possible, preparing concerts (uuhhh - I should not praise my preparations, but I mean just sitting there and trying sounds, or doing the daily prayer services) in Rostock is much more fun - at least because if the space. I didn't measure it by professional formulas, but sitting at the computer and editing the lates recording, I could measure 6 seconds reverberation from end of a tutti chord until zero sound. That was what I missed so much in Neuenfelde - lift your fingers and the music ends, at least with audience. And now we get to Pierre: The Mixtures ARE well balanced, at least the original ones! The 5r in the GT is from 1983, intended to boost the then very weak instrument. It sticks out a little. Not recorded yet is the "Hohe Mixtur" /high mix of the Ped. My predecessor did not let clean this stop at last overhaul because of its lack of usability....as he did with Regal 4' (Pos), Nachthorn 2' (Ped) and, if I remember correctly, Sordun 8' of the Ped. I love the latter!! it gives a gentle humming to the bass line e.g. in (early) baroque chorales like Buxtehude, making it more clear without beeing noisy as a trumpet. Guess the most important stop for congregational singing? It's the Oboe 8' of Man. III. Beeing a gentle German Oboe, it gives brightness to the coupled chorus without standing out as much as a mixture. Regarding the wind: When Matthias Schuke was visiting, he opened my eyes for a very simple reason for bad winding. He asked me to play a tutti while he would observe the bellows in the chamber. He found out, that the top reservoir with its own blower collapsed completely. The two connected reservoirs below where interesting: The bottom one remained at 30%, but the one above collapsed. And there is an easy reason, check this page: http://www.marien-musik.de/img-magazin2.html The trunks are quite wide (though not wide enough), but the "accordion" connection between the too bellows is much more tiny! So this is the weakest point of the chain - there is still some air in the lower reservoir (which has its own output, too), but it can't reach the following middle reservoir. Schuke also pointed out, that the valves are not made of proper dimensions. Well, impressive the reservoir house is, but it is not made by ACC or another one of the great builders. It was made just by the local organ builder, not a very gifted one. The pipe feet have impressive small toe holes, as the voicers of 1938 obviously discovered the weakness of the wind and had to deal with it. And many wooden flue stops have reduced mouth height over the whole range of the stop, sometimes significantly. It will be some work to find out why and when these modifications where made. Back to the mixtures, and above all, the harmonics/mutations. On the German Orgelforum they discussed the super octave couplers and the problems with neo-baroque mixtures. As shown by the audio samples, the mixtures do not make any problems while beeing super-coupled (by doubling the notes on the keyboards, as such couplers are not existent.) I got my lesson on the large Sauer/Ladegast of Leipzig St. Nikolai (before beeing converted to the "Porsche" organ) - Prelude and Fuge BWV 541: The only change between P & F: Add "Super II/I". It was perfect! The pipework was MADE to be used like this (you anglican cathedral organists of course know that...), and I am shure this is the case in Rostock, too. Let the consultant and the engraver of the stop knobs call the stop whatever. The pipe workshop continued its romantic style of work and voicing. But we have to notice, that the 1938 pipes are mostly made of zinc, but do not have slots/expressions anymore (see images). But what is so fine: They do not have any chiff yet! (And be sure that I will help them not to get any in future...) So far for now, I have to interrupt now, but there will be more to tell. Greetings

Dear board members! After long work, inspired by the efforts made by other members in moving masses of photographs to web servers, I want to announce the update of www.marien-musik.de (Take the flash intro, it is nice and was programmed by one of my my predecessor's sons...). Click on to the English versions and "Organs" or directly the "Kolloquium" icon. Yes, in November we will have some experts discussing the future of this remarkable instrument, which has major faults, too. A somewhat popular compact disc was published to raise funds for the experts meeting, and it worked as a first sound for the audio file section. If time permits, I will add the typical recordings of stop families etc. The gallery section allows a quite complete virtual tour of the instrument. There are still details to be photographed and I will announce updates. I like to hear opinions about this organ (and am looking forward to see Pierre beeing an lively contributor). Beeing a slider soundboard instrument with electropneumatic action and a summit of several historic layers, it reminds me to larger English organs. People from the islands would merely deny such a character, as our host JPM expressed during a brief visit last year. Definitely not breaking records of sound pressure, it is quite a flexible instrument, making fun when you play Weckmann and Buxtehude, of course German romantics and still musical at French symphonics, though lacking power in the descant then. One can accompany choirs with Great reeds, I even did a OUP carol with my wife singing the descant over a GT reed tenor cantus. (Try this on a new Rieger!) But winding is weak, this generated a very moderated style of voicing, and people often say after a quasi-tutti: "Was that all?" I found out that this is not so much a matter of physical volume, but of a "vale" in the frequency range - the soprano range is somewhat weak against tenor and bass range, and the existent high mixtures do not really shimmer down to the nave. Anyway, enjoy surfing that site (everything is bilingual, at least I tried to make it sound English...). Greetings Karl-Bernhardin Kropf

The Ratingen organ is a musical instrument even without that laptop stuff. The software is the SINUA project, a students (?) startup thing. It is one of three projects of Orgelwelten Ratingen (Ratingen Organ Worlds) and organist Ansgar Wallenhorst. Beside of his musical abilities, he is good at marketing. The second tech project, a virtual organ project, is much behind advanced commercial software, but is praised on the Ratingen website as very innovative. Technically interested organists in German have been waiting for the SINUA outcome for long time, to learn what features there are to change the future of organ music (something like that is said on the website, and even Olivier Latry is uses as witness). But if the individual access of cones (its a cone chest organ) and thus the possibility to bring any stop into an aliquot/mutation function (and what about the limit in the descant???) is the only achievement, it is just a bad remake of the extension organs (MM would now start to praise John Compton's art). Bad, because the pipework was not intended to be treated like that, regarding scaling and voicing, and, as said before, the temperament problem is knocking out. Maybe we will hear more fascinating news in future, but... See the German Website in question: http://www.orgelwelten-ratingen.de/orgelschule.php

Only "Rieger" organs after WWII come from today's Austria. The Rieger firm mentioned here is the predecessor, then located in Jägerndorf, Silesia, today Krnov in Czechia, and the home of Rieger-Kloss organs. See more about the complete "Rieger" history at http://www.rieger-orgelbau.com/1845E.htm

The "milestones" of "Hear my prayer" in brief, quoted from the Carus Edition: 10 Nov 1843 lyrics sent to FMB by William Bartholomew, wishing to perform that piece in Crosby Hall 13 Dec 1843 FMB asks his english editor Buxton to thank Bartholomew, announces completion for beginning of 1844 25 Jan 1844 piece completed and sent to Buxton 31 Jan 1844 second copy with alterations and Bartholomews lyrics completed and sent to Bartholomew End of 1844 FMB considers publication of the piece and offers a german version to Bote & Bock editors August 1846 FMB rehearsing "Elias" in London, meets Jospeh Robinson, JR asks for instrumentation of "Hear my prayer" 14 Feb 1847 FMB sends complete score to Buxton. Original score of 25 Jan 1944 seems to be entitled "Hör mein Rufen" instead of "Hör mein Bitten". German translation is supposed to be made by FMB himself. So, this foreword is not really clear at the important point, but apparently the piece was WRITTEN in German first, but based on the English words of the commissioner.

The legendary Walcker of St. Michaelis church in Hamburg, completed in 1912 with 163 stops on 5 Manuals (incl. an ethereal division in the roof - btw, this idea is going to be included in the current refurbishment of the church's organs) can be heard online now on the website of Gerhard Walcker-Mayer. IMO, Alfred Sittard's interpretation of Bach's d-moll toccata shows this instrument, which could be seen comparable with the organ of Liverpool cathedral, in an interesting manner. The playing is lively, and registration is interesting, as is the sound of this instrument. (Be careful, not every sample on this page is recorded on that organ). The instrument was damaged severely during WW II, but could have been saved, if consultants had wanted to. They did not.... well, the present Steinmeyer has its merits, too. Here are the links: Organ information: http://www.gewalcker.de/gewalcker.de/Archi...g-michaelis.htm Samples page: http://www.gewalcker.de/gewalcker.de/opus1700.htm Greetings, KBK Edit: The "Ad nos"-fugue samples are interesting, too - but I don't like the piece oh, and I did not notice, that detail view of the organ description needs password authorization, sorry.

Ah, okay... After a Web search on R. F. I get an idea of what you mean...

Fascinating why? Because of the speed and precision? IMHO he is serving the metronome more than the instrument... Fully impossible playing for an authentic Reubke instrument, but this does not need to be a rule when playing a modern organ in a room with modest acoustics. I can share the praise of his technique, but musically the fugue doesn't touch me.

I have a recording by Harald Vogel with a beautifully sounding Aa-Kerk organ. If he ist still involved and did not change his attitude in recent years, he will try to lead the organ back to a Schnitger stae, may it be ficticiuos in details or not. I always joked that he is the "Let's restore the organ to the 12th February 1644!"-guy, and in Germany the influence of this attitude is noticeable. But as it is decreasing (Pierre will be happy to hear that), it will be associated more and more with completed projects, less and less with coming ones or considerations of restoration projects ("My" organ here will confirm that tendency, as it will presumably preserve all its previous historic layers, but maybe get a little newer one (removable) added...).

(off topic) Oh, one of the VERY FEW occasions for me to jump up and say: An instrument (out of the hundreds mentioned here) I played! It must have been in 1983, when I came to Norwich with our school choir from southern Austria to make a visit to our twin school, which was Hewett School. Our choirs made some events together, one was an afternoon concert at Peter Mancroft Church, with me accompanying maybe Mozart's Ave verum or so. Did already know what an open diapason is, and found that there are more than one on one division.. I did not record and not remember that it was a R & D - I was far away from becoming church musician in those days (sigh), and even more far away from showing interest to anglican church music like today...A do remember a very "intensive" party together with some Hewett pupils after another event... Back to St P M: Is the R & D still there? Already then I was told that they are gathering money for a new tracker instrument. Sorry for interrupting this discussion, but it was lovely to have this memory recalled...

It's true. I can confirm it for Fulda Cathedral, where they simply switched off the "second rank" of magnets to get the standard on-off coupler effect. Here is another firm trying to achieve proportional electric action, Eltec in Italy. I think they provided parts for the spectacular Guillou-Blancafort organ of Teneriffa.

....and to save space and to add some better projection for the reeds, add my name in as a general feature of the pipework....! In German, Kropf is the term for the Miter Joint, too, though its primary meaning is crop, resp. struma.

Playing and maintaining a 16 m high instrument in an unheated cathedral (currently 4 degrees Celsius), I have to disagree. The *absence* of heating gives quite homogeneous structures of airflow. Our blowers are located in the tower, and because of the natural temperature there, there is no problem with a difference to the nave, because there is no difference (since the blower chamber has only a very small window which could cause warming by sunlight). Problems with warm air gathering at the top of the vaults, heating up and detuning the Kronwerk, occur only lightly during Dec. 24, when we have those congregations of several hundred people, but not on the other winter days. I agree that historic organs were not pure because of technical reasons, e. g. the vast number of ranks in early baroque mixtures ("Mixtur 6-10fach") and much more problems with leakage in those times. But regarding temperature and tuning, I would always favour the unheated church.

Well, though this is once again off-topic.... but an interesting statement. The Danish Marcussen firm had (has?) the tradition to split up the Pedal division into Grosspedal and Kleinpedal, stacking the latter above the other to save space. However, Subbass 16' and Gedacktbass 8' very often shared one single rank. This frequently led to problems with the two-face scaling and creating a somewhat muddy sound in piano 16'+8' registrations - compared with the overall level of sound quality of those organs. One organ where I know it from own experience is that of Lübeck Cathedral..