SomeChap

Thanks to pcnd for clarifying what he meant, but this is still good stuff IMO. I'd also add that gathering all this data is one thing; getting the data you've gathered into an accessible and searchable format is quite another. Part of my job is to help companies do just that, in preparation for litigation. I'm slowly getting used to their faces going white when I explain to them just how much it will cost. The world loves technology, but understanding of it is patchy. This means that things aren't as joined-up as the big tech companies would have us all think. (eg You just try converting Lotus Notes email into a format you can read in Outlook. Now try doing it for 50 people's email. Now try 5000 people's...) I would however say that this fact doesn't necessarily stop agencies of different types from trying their best to apply the level of surveillance we've been talking about.

Each to his own, say I. For myself, I am utterly insignificant in the Organ world; I've found it to be a much nicer place when viewed from an armchair! I stopped aspiring to be an 'eminent' organist years ago and have been much happier for it. Still love the organ as an instrument though, so I'm still reading, listening and (occasionally) playing. Perhaps one or two members here would know who I am, but other than that I think my identity is not relevant to my occasional participation here - I really am just 'some chap'. For me, the opportunity to evaluate the post and not the poster is one of the most refreshing things about this forum. Al

Aw, you ruined my day-dream! How far from concert pitch is it? Fair enough, but the west window argument never seems very convincing to me ... it didn't seem to be that much of a problem at Haarlem, Groningen, Luneberg, Freiburg, St-Eustache, Rouen, St-Denis, St Sulpice, Albi, St Maximin, Hamburg, Toulouse, Zwolle, Antwerp, Alkmaar ...

Forgive me if I've mentioned (er, 'ranted about') this before. The Grove organ is one of the few in this country which really deserves international attention. I'll never forget playing Franck on it back when I was a teenager. Hard work, but well worth it. The tragedy is that it's in a building which by widespread agreement has one of the best acoustics in the British isles, and yet it's buried away in a transept, behind a parclose screen. Hear it from the nave and it has no impact at all; hear it close-up and it's exciting but there's no space for the sound to develop. There's nowhere it sounds right. And it looks bl***y ugly. Now if there was only a lottery grant to move it to the west end in a new case ... ... drool .... I'm thinking Vierne Messe Solonelle .... Ah well, at least we can be thankful that it wasn't flooded last summer. And no dishonour intended to the Milton organ, of course. Tewkesbury is a lucky place indeed.

Thanks for the info/correction pcnd. I went there years and years ago when I was a kid, but it so happened to be St James's day (!) and there was no way I was getting near the organ. Did see the botafumeiro though! cheers, SC (ps. Posting this from google's brand new web-browser, Chrome. Very very slick indeed!)

The Southwell Quire organ electronics are mostly buried inside the pulpitum. For an empty case, I'm sure I read somewhere that one of the twin cases in the Basilica in Santiago de Compostela is completely empty, but I just can't find where now (I even ditched google and resorted to flicking through actual books!). If I'm right, there's even a battery of fake chamades poking half way across the nave! Can anyone put me out of my misery?

I felt that the chorales were the most moving aspect of JEG's John Passion (both heard live from a cheap seat in the audience and re-watching this morning from the hard drive of my PVR). Such a refreshing and challenging change of perspective from the narrative and the formal arias. Not trying to stir trouble of course! But I don't think of JEG as an 'authentic' performer - he uses baroque instruments in the same way as neo-baroque organ-builders included nasards and tierces in otherwise stylistically flexible ensembles. This is not intended as negative criticism though - if you're going to do the John Passion at the proms then his way is a fantastic way. And as RVW would no doubt point out, the musicianship is the most important thing. Usually I'm a bit of a performance practice know-it-all but for me in this case, authentic or not, it was the best John P I've heard in years.

It's quite interesting that British organ builders often seem to produce their best cases when when working abroad. The most inspiring organ case of modern times is surely that of St Ignatius Loyola built by our gentle hosts. There's also that wonderful chinoiserie house organ again from Manders which also went to the USA. Then there's the extremely handsome organ built by Tickell in Nesbyen, Norway a few years ago, with a gorgeously coloured and gilded case. The Hill organ in Sydney town hall has already been mentioned - what a facade! Or how about the beautiful Dallams in Brittany, or even the Smith organ in Edam.... Fantastic cases all.

This is spot-on. I used to play an organ just like this when I was a lad. Untouched Gray and Davison, arranged eccentrically over the west door of a medieval country church, with the console squeezed to one side and the soundboards running east-west. Sang its little heart out, an absolute joy it was. Really versatile too - warmth of tone from plenty of foundation stops (I think it had an extra 8' Flute on the Swell), variety from upper-work perfectly matched to the acoustic, a rousing hymn-chorus. There was loads of repertoire you could do with it, and it was a perfect partner for practising on, because the sound was never tiring on the ears. It was always in tune (no reeds, didn't need them), and it had a lovely responsive tracker action. A little masterpiece.

The team I work with has a very good reputation for investigating large-scale price-fixing allegations. This sort of thing when it happens is always bad for the long-term health of an industry. It's in no-one's interest ultimately. Trouble is, we'd probably quote about £200k for the investigation...

Get your page-turner to play the long high triads at the beginning of the Sanctus - it makes all the difference!

Can't believe no-one's mentioned the Durufle requiem...

Chances are it's the way you've got those various players set up (e.g. Volume controls, equalisers etc.). I'd second the call for VLC. It does have a very minimalist interface, so a lot of the advanced functionality is hidden in menus, but it plays _almost_ everything you could ever throw at it. I use PortableVLC (www.portableapps.com), so I can't vouch for the regular version, but my experience is that VLC stays out the way and doesn't try to take over your computer in the way that real-player and quicktime do. SC

Interesting. Here's the 1970 stop-list of the Swell, according to NPOR: 16 Double Diapason 8 Open Diapason 8 Gamba 8 Lieblich Gedackt 4 Principal 2 Fifteenth 1 1/3 Larigot III Mixture 16 Conra Oboe 8 Cornopean … And that's one stop bigger than now. So there ought to be room on the soundboard to reinstate the 16 bourdon as well as another 8ft. In common with everyone else, I've never heard this organ, but I think I agree that the long-term best thing to do is to maximise what's there already and that means moving it. If the west end is viable then that's an interesting solution: move the choir down there too (or just maybe buy another second-hand little organ for them up at the east end. Something like 8.8.4.2 / 8.4.8 / 16?) If the west end isn't viable, then what about moving the organ westwards into the north nave aisle, and bringing it forward so it almost protrudes into the Nave. That would vastly improve projection, and the higher ceiling would give it more room to speak.. If that causes problems for the choir then they could join the organ in the aisle. Improve the church acoustics as much as possible; any carpets or banners must go. Maybe even consult an acoustician (one who's a musician ideally!) In terms of the internals of the organ, the most important thing is a mechanical overhaul and a proper console. Tonally, most of the suggestions here are very sensible. In descending order of priority: Great: --That clarionet would have to be really good to be more useful than a trumpet in an underpowered organ (Denys Thurlow or not). Replace I think. --Are the mutations working musically? If not then they might need revoicing. I'm even tempted to suggest a 4' flute may be more useful than a tierce, but of course it's not clear without playing the organ Swell: --Another 8ft instead of the Larigot (personally I would suggest a mild Diapason rather than a Celeste, but that's because Celestes seem to be addictive and I'm sick of organists who use nothing else /rant). --16' Bourdon reinstated. Transpose the 16 reed up to 8ft. --Possibly rebalance the Mixture to start at 15.19.22 - this would help mitigate any harshness or excessive brightness, especially important if the organ is to be moved nearer the congregation. Pedal: --New 16' reed (in a perfect world). But pedal reeds are bulky and this one mustn't be an acoustic obstacle. There's an organ near me in a similar position where the new pedal reed is just behind the west facing casework and it muffles the rest of the organ terribly. Most of this could easily be done with second-hand or stock pipework in sympathy with the current style of the organ. It would give the following: Pedal 16 Open Diapason 16 Bourdon 8 Prinicpal 8 Flute 4 Fifteenth 16 Bassoon Great 8 Open Diapason 8 Stopped Diapason 4 Principal 2 2/3 Nazard 2 Fifteenth 1 3/5 Tierce III Mixture 19.22.26 8 Trumpet Swell 16 Double Diapason 8 Open Diapason 8 Lieblich Gedackt 8 Gamba 4 Principal 4 Flute 2 Fifteenth III Mixture 15.19.22 8 Oboe 8 Cornopean From what I can see, there's real potential here. With better performance 'in the building', this could be an excellent instrument for parish services, for teaching and studying, for recitals and concerts.

Hello all, The violinist was Andrew Manze, long one of my favourites for Baroque stuff. His recording of the Bach Double Violin Concerto (with Rachel Podger) has to be heard to be believed. I've got his recording of bwv565 on an old Harmonia Mundi sampler CD. I think this is the original release for purchase on Amazon UK: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Violin-Sonata...5027&sr=8-1 Amazon USA usually has better audio previews (the Windows Media ones): http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Sonatas-Jaap-te...5264&sr=8-1 It's a very different piece from the one we know and love! As it happened I listened to my recording of the Radio 4 programme last night (PVRs really are wonderful inventions!) I think it was called 'Who wrote Bach's Toccata?'. regards SC

Thanks Nigel. If PlH was involved at Malmesbury then maybe there is hope! I know the Catz organ fairly well and I agree it's got a lot going for it - I think it's a bit misleading to describe it as a Johnson really. It's more of a Bishop/leHuray/Johnson, and it was really le Huray's brainchild to mix up those disparate elements. I gather he supervised the 1970s work very closely. btw, some people have over-emphasised the impact of the recent Flentrop work, which was mostly remedial. I'm suprised Flentrops wanted to take such a minor job on ... I suppose they wanted a foot in the Oxbridge door. I think they were originally proposing a complete replacement from the pipe-feet down. That would have been marvellous, but of course the money wasn't there. SC ps. You and I once had a conversation about Milton Abbey's 32' reed in a pub in Ilkeston! Am I scaring you?

I very much liked the Fotheringhay Woodstock. I'd never played one of his organs before so I had no idea what to expect. The Great Open D was lovely and warm, and the chorus grew nicely from it - colourful but not forced. The pedal reed was excellent (by no means always the case these days) - warm and clear but not dominant, and the Swell flutes and mutations were charming as far as they went. The Great didn't seem to suffer from the remoteness at the console that one so often gets with vertical HW over BW dispositions. The cabinet work was uniformly fine (particularly the keys), and the action was admirably even, quiet and precise. The case is very attractive. On the down side, the Great dulciana was a non-entity (as they all are IMO) although nice enough in its way. The key action was rather too shallow for my liking. The only real let-downs were the swell-box and the tremulant, neither of which appeared to do anything at all. Possibly both were in need of repair? No doubt some would have liked more of a Swell organ. (no chorus, no diapason, no reeds), but given the spatial constraints (the organ has to fit under the Nave arcading, and not stick out too far backwards) I don't see what more could have been fitted in. Certainly the organ is very compact as it is. I did wonder whether it was wise to build it on the south side - it must get a lot of sunlight falling onto it through the huge windows. On the whole though, a really lovely, really musical instrument. Very English in character despite the Brustwerk-Swell Organ, a sympathetic acoustic, marvellous architecture, remarkably friendly church folk, and a very commendable pub round the corner. I was a happy customer. (Oh, and I got to play the EEOP organs in the same session too, as I've mentioned elsewhere; 3 for the price of 1!)

I'm not aware of a single quire-screen organ that really works in the Nave. It's easier at the old monastic cathedrals like Gloucester and Norwich than the saecular cathedrals like York and Lincoln, because in the Monastic buildings the choir-stalls (and hence the screen) were west of the crossing, and hence physically located in the (architectural) Nave. With the saecular cathedrals, the central tower is between the screen organ and the mob, and it acts as an acoustic hoover. (I know this distinction is a bit simplified, but it makes the point I hope.) I hate it when bits of organ are hived off in divers unlikely places. Nave divisions create problems with tuning, timing, balance and tone. The notion that you can get 'the organ sound' to all bits of the building in this way is analogous to the notion they have in Notre Dame in Paris that you can get 'the service' to people in the side aisles by filming it and broadcasting it onto plasma screens mounted on the nave pillars. (Well I suppose it gives the poor plebs something to alleviate their boredom as they sit wishing they could be right up there in the sanctuary with Monsignor Vingt-Trois. Yech.) I like my organs all in one piece, please (but I'll make an exception for Ruckpositives!). I really think the only answer is two organs. (But then I'm an organist - of course I would say that!) One of them can be on the screen, that's fine. The question of where the Nave organ goes is not something I believe we can generalise very easily... SC ps I'd be really interested to know how the choir organ at Chelmsford copes with the Cathedral repertoire. It looks a very sensible design for an organ of its size (and I thoroughly approve of the idea to re-use good 19th century pipework), but has it got enough variety to do justice to the whole year's music? Is it only used for small / mid-week services? What happens at bigger evensongs? What happens when they do Dyson in D?

Cremona, your link is a bit dodgy. I think this is what you meant: http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=E00454 cheers SC

Just found some lovely photos of Malmesbury abbey on flickr.com here. I see there's not much left of the building left in terms of what there must have been once, but what's there looks quite architecturally ambitious (eg. stone vaulting, triple arcade etc). Is there much acoustic? If the building sounds spacious, then I reckon you'd get away with the 32'. SC

re. Milton Aha! in which case the 32' probably had in fact been installed when I played it (which would have been around 1997 ... 10 years ago ... I can't believe it...), it's just that I didn't realise about the protection system: I do remember the blank stop knob being there. How curious... Maybe it's to protect the organ to a certain extent from the mischievous pupils at the abbey school? Thanks for the write-up: I did feel that the (16') pedal reed was the weakest link in the organ (especially next to the wonderful narrow-scale Open Wood; so much better than a Bourdon!), so I did suspect that the 32' might have the same weaknesses.

There are a few 2-manual organs I know of with 32' reeds in England: -Worksop Priory - an early Collins tracker. The 32' is fractional length, and makes an extraordinary noise! The rest of the stoplist is a direct crib from the Marcussen at St Mary's Nottingham (not a criticism of course - they had the same consultant, and it works well in both cases - just a fact!). -Milton Abbey - an 1860s Gray and Davison which has been restored with a curious mix of conservationism and megalomania! Actually it's a superb organ (in a superb acoustic), even though it looks odd on paper. But I haven't played it since the 32' reed was added; can anyone comment? -Malmesbury Abbey Not played this one, but if I'm honest I'm not usually a fan of Johnson organs... regards SC

Why does it matter if they are 'anachronistic'? What difference does it make? What do you mean by 'practical'? Bernard Aubertin's organs are shot through with all sorts of palpable historic influences, as well as refreshingly original touches. This is not being challenged in the tonal schemes, so why is it so in the consoles? Aubertin is clearly well aware that the way that a console looks (and feels) exerts a strong effect on how players will think subconsciously of his organ. I well remember first playing the Metzler in Trinity College Cambridge: I was so shocked to discover it had a true 'Schnitger'-style console with enormous stop-heads in horizontal rows! It made me abruptly revise the way I felt about playing this organ. St Louis-en-l'Ile is not an organ for accompanying Anglican Cathedral Psalms! Its console is clearly designed to encourage players to treat the organ as though it were a Baroque instrument, and thus register it like one. If the stop-labels have apparently not been designed for maximum readability, then must we not assume that readability is not the first priority in Aubertin's mind? Maybe we could think of the stop-labels as an intimately personal touch, a bit like Aubertin's signature! Who knows, but in any case surely they are designed to convey more than mere information of what the stops are. We might conclude that players aren't supposed to be wasting their precious mental focus during performance with reading stop labels! Maybe we are being discouraged from changing stops too much in the middle of pieces? Maybe we are being encouraged to spend more time familiarising ourselves properly with the organ before even beginning to play? OK, some of this is a bit far-fetched! But I'm convinced something along these lines is going on, because of the colour variation in the stop-heads - a clear indication that Aubertin wants us to use our natural visual/spatial skills (rather than our slow, learned, pedestrian reading skills) to register this organ. I rather suspect that to accuse this console of not being 'practical' is to miss the point a bit. It also divorces and abstracts console design from organ design to (I think) an unfortunate extent. The personality of the console (although I don't really think the term 'console' applies very well to this sort of organ - 'key-table' perhaps?) should really represent the personality of the instrument, and give the player helpful, sometimes subliminal, hints on how it should be played and heard. Perhaps an interesting comparison would be the Early English organs being discussed elsewhere here. I was very lucky to play these when they were in Fotheringhay church recently (and a glorious summer evening it was too!). And (particularly on the larger 'Wetheringsett' organ) there was no effort made whatsoever to make the stop levers available for use at the keys - you almost had to get up and go round the corner of the organ to reach them. There was certainly no way of reading the labels - in fact on the smaller 'Wingfield' organ, there were none at all! Contrast that with (say) the Nicholson at Southwell Minster... Another very successful organ I would say, but surely all the toys reflect specific preferences of its designers and builders, and they encourage us to use the organ in specific ways. Now there's an organ which IS excellent for psalms! And it has a superb console, there's no doubting it. That's plenty from me for now... regards, SC

Sorry Vox Humana, I completely missed your post on the Luebeck Brustwerk above! I didn't mean to duplicate it, honest! (I'm also jealous of your umlauts....)

Re. Castromocho: not as old as it looks (or sounds) - 1821 according to http://www.organartmedia.com/Capillas-Intro.html (last paragraph). I'm not really sure how appropriate it is for Francis Chapelet to be playing/improvising what sounds like Cabanillles or Correa de Arauxo on a 19th century organ! (OK maybe I'm being a bit fussy - it certainly works!) What a fantastic little organ though! They really don't make them like that anymore! (Except Manders, naturally )