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Lee Blick


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That is NOT something which is apparent at Liverpool Cathedral, St.Paul's Cathedral or the Royal Albert Hall (why do we always forget Norwich?). In these places, the organs have been thought out, properly executed and are of a piece musically, just as so many Skinner organs are, or at least were.

 

 

Indeed, NOrwich is a good instrument - and with only a small amount of extension (Solo Organ). If only the building had a more generous acoustic....

 

Perhaps the final answer is right there in America, with the superb organ at St.John-the-Divine, NY, now in storage I understand, following the fire.

MM

 

Fire? What fire? How badly was this cathedral - and its excellent organ - damaged?

I was sorry to hear of this. Any amplification of this unfortunate event will be appreciated. Thank you.

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That is NOT something which is apparent at Liverpool Cathedral, St.Paul's Cathedral or the Royal Albert Hall (why do we always forget Norwich?). In these places, the organs have been thought out, properly executed and are of a piece musically, just as so many Skinner organs are, or at least were.

 

 

Indeed, Norwich is a good instrument - and with only a small amount of extension (Solo Organ). If only the building had a more generous acoustic....

 

Perhaps the final answer is right there in America, with the superb organ at St.John-the-Divine, NY, now in storage I understand, following the fire.

MM

 

Fire? What fire? How badly was this cathedral - and its excellent organ - damaged?

I was sorry to hear of this. Any amplification of this unfortunate event will be appreciated. Thank you.

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Fire? What fire? How badly was this cathedral - and its excellent organ - damaged?

I was sorry to hear of this. Any amplification of this unfortunate event will be appreciated. Thank you.

 

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/12/18/new.york.fire/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_...John_the_Divine

 

http://www.quimbypipeorgans.com/wkprog.htm

 

Keep reading!

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my i thought ud be thrilled

 

after all its redundant

 

overly large

 

all u need 30 stops of tracker

 

organist resigned

 

y waste millions on 141 ranks

 

u preach economy

 

i cant figure u out

 

u talk outa both sides of ur mouth

 

one minute its 30 tracker stops then u lament 141 ranks

 

go figure

 

 

In which case you have totally mis-undertsood my intentions.

 

By suggesting the designing of a two-clavier twenty (not thirty) stop instrument, I wished to see what you would make of it. Anyone can design a four-hundred stop behemoth - but to design a much smaller instrument, which is both practical and effective is considerably more taxing.

 

Incidentally, several times in my posts, I have mentioned that I can see little merit in mechanical action for large instruments. However, for the size of small instrument which I specified, mechanical action is not only entirely appropriate but is something which is constructed on a fairly regular basis by the firm which hosts this board.

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Incidentally, several times in my posts, I have mentioned that I can see little merit in mechanical action for large instruments. However, for the size of small instrument which I specified, mechanical action is not only entirely appropriate but is something which is constructed on a fairly regular basis by the firm which hosts this board.

 

And it's pretty nice to play a good one... I'd be a lot happier being custodian of a tracker than an electro-pneumatic (my last church but one was a Mander 3-manual tracker instrument - rebuild of a Gray & Davidson that had been turned EP in 1907 - JPM and his team did a great job turning it back into mechanical; bit heavy when coupled, but very nice).

 

My new organ (I haven't even started at the church yet - I start this Sunday!) has just lost the Great Tromba, Mixture and half the Contra Tromba due to pneumatics (burst leather in the stop machine) - much less likely to happen when you have just a few rods and slides to bring a stop on.

 

Nice to start my spell there with only 1.5 great reeds! (To be fair, I don't need them, the rest of the thing is so stupidly huge that it'll be a blessed relief for the congregation to have a few reeds missing)

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And it's pretty nice to play a good one... I'd be a lot happier being custodian of a tracker than an electro-pneumatic (my last church but one was a Mander 3-manual tracker instrument - rebuild of a Gray & Davidson that had been turned EP in 1907 - JPM and his team did a great job turning it back into mechanical; bit heavy when coupled, but very nice).

 

My new organ (I haven't even started at the church yet - I start this Sunday!) has just lost the Great Tromba, Mixture and half the Contra Tromba due to pneumatics (burst leather in the stop machine) - much less likely to happen when you have just a few rods and slides to bring a stop on.

 

Nice to start my spell there with only 1.5 great reeds! (To be fair, I don't need them, the rest of the thing is so stupidly huge that it'll be a blessed relief for the congregation to have a few reeds missing)

 

Interesting! On the other hand, I have experienced more trouble with mechanical pedal actions than any other type of pedal action.

 

On a moderate two-clavier instrument a mechanical action can be sensitive. However, I have yet to meet a mechanical action on even a fair-sized three-clavier instrument which was not heavy - or that managed to give me any advantages over the superb repetition and attack of the forty-year-old electro-pneumatic action on my own church instrument! This action, incidentally, is about the most reliable which I have ever encountered. There are, of course, the octave couplers, too....

 

It sounds as if your new instrument is either a Harrison & Harrison, a Hill, Norman & Beard or a Rushworth & Dreaper - they have all been known to use pneumatics and families of trombi on the GO. It also sounds as if it is reasonably large.

 

Mind you, it is only fair to say that a careful, expert restoration should give decades of trouble-free service from drawstop machines or under-actions, etc.

 

I wish you all the best in your new post. I also hope that the stop action will soon be repaired.

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It sounds as if your new instrument is either a Harrison & Harrison, a Hill, Norman & Beard or a Rushworth & Dreaper - they have all been known to use pneumatics and families of trombi on the GO. It also sounds as if it is reasonably large.

 

I wish you all the best in your new post. I also hope that the stop action will soon be repaired.

 

Nope, Willis III. See the thread on St. Mary's, Southampton, in "General Discussion", or http://www.laudachoir.org/organ for more depressing details.

 

Basically, the only work that's been done on it since 1956 (bar a change of a Vox Humana for a Cimbel Mixture and a Clarabella for a Gedeckt by Willis III in about 1958), is the rebuild of the great and choir after a roof leak, but that was not a restoration, just a take it out, dry it and put it back, I believe.

 

The stop action I hope to get repaired ASAP, but the church has NO funds. None at all, and the general attitude is get the money elsewhere or mothball it. Any suggestions for fundraising greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks for the best wishes, though! I'm still trying to decide what to play in the morning!

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OK - you are welcome!

 

Mmmm.... I forgot that Willis also used trombi.

 

How about some nice Reger? Or some JSB - the B minor (BWV 544) - you could do it all on one manual (more boring, though).

 

Failing that, Mendelssohn 3rd - first movement. Or how about Widor - Finale to Sixth (or the Second) Symphonie - neither of these movements need any changes off registration - just tutti throughout.

 

Hope you find something that works OK.

 

Regards!

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OK - you are welcome!

 

Mmmm.... I forgot that Willis also used trombi.

 

How about some nice Reger? Or some JSB - the B minor (BWV 544) - you could do it all on one manual (more boring, though).

 

Failing that, Mendelssohn 3rd - first movement. Or how about Widor - Finale to Sixth (or the Second) Symphonie - neither of these movements need any changes off registration - just tutti throughout.

 

Hope you find something that works OK.

 

Regards!

 

Stanford D minor Postlude in the end...

 

JSB's a challenge in there - sounds great at the console, but sounds a mess down the church.

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Mmmm.... the Stanford is a nice piece, anyway!

 

And not too taxing for a first week out! Shame I had to to let the organ rest between the big chords at the end - leaky wind, and had no 8' tromba or gt mixture, (actually the tromba's not a huge loss), but, still nicer than playing it on a Wyvern! :)

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And not too taxing for a first week out! Shame I had to to let the organ rest between the big chords at the end - leaky wind, and had no 8' tromba or gt mixture, (actually the tromba's not a huge loss), but, still nicer than playing it on a Wyvern! :)

 

Well, yes - but Wyverns do toast bread so nicely.

 

I would be most interested to see the instrument at some stage - if this were possible, please!

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Well, yes - but Wyverns do toast bread so nicely.

 

I would be most interested to see the instrument at some stage - if this were possible, please!

 

You'd be most welcome. My e-mail address should be in my Mander profile, drop me a line, and we can sort it out! Where are you based?

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Yes, it's a full length rank. It appears amongst both the flues (where it's called Diaphone) and the reeds (where it's called Dulzian) - but both stops use exactly the same rank of pipes.

 

I may be completely wrong - but the IDEA of using a shared tube (for each note) for the diaphonic valve and the reed for the Dulzian was experimented with, but I am sure that they scrapped it and went with independant resonators in the end.

 

There is aother one of course - Sydney Hown Hall where there is a 64 Contra Trombone. As far as I can see unly usable with everything else going - but it does sound different to just having a big 32 on.

 

As to the Atlantic City organ - don't you ahve to judge it in context of the hall it was built in, and the role it was designed for? It isn't a church organ, it isn't a concert organ, it isn't a theatre organ - it is what it is, and I am sure that if it is ever heard again in full working order it will be astonishing(not to everyone's taste of course - but astonishing nevertheless.

Will

 

PS - the question of cost? These huge pipes cost MEGA-MEGA bucks (even 32 fts).

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we all have our partialities its true but a world class organ like atlantic city is hardly bad taste

 

it is excellent

 

the effort to craft it alone

 

thoughtless words cant detract from it its dignity

 

The building is massive, at the time of its opening it was the largest indoor open space in the world, with a volume of over 15 million cubic ft.

The point of it being so big it to fill teh hall with sound, and to play for every even held in the building. It was used during idoor helicopter flying, horse racing, football, baseball, netball, tennis, athletics, ice hockey, ice skating, figure skating, stage shows, pegeants, conventions, exibitions, meetings, it was even used when the U.S army occupied the building during WWII, as a marching band.

The point of its 64ft was to add a bit of extra "ground" to it. Its sound has to reach all the way to the back of the room, 500ft away, and it has to fill the space. The room is 350 ft wide, 500ft long and 140ft high and held over 40,000 seated. Its definetly a massive acheivement. Only a few people, if any, are still alive today who heard this instrument at its full extent. Those who have heard it have said, its the best thing they have ever heard.

 

Its 64ft isnt all diaphone pipes or dulzian pipes, only the bottom 22 pipes are diaphones becuase the diaphones speak quicker than the reeds. So its a single stop called the 64ft Dulzian. The transition between the two types of pipes isnt noticed.

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Whether or not there is really any point in having a 64 foot on the pedals, I'm surprised noone has questioned the idea of a 32 foot on the manuals.

 

I have played two such organs, Lausanne Cathedral, Switzerland (Gt 32 flue) and Lake Avenue, Pasadena, USA (Gt 32 flue, Sw 32 reed) and vouch that in both cases the 32 genuinely does add noticable extra oooomph when reaching the climax of a dramatic piece. definiately not something to overdo, but I found a use for them, espeically the reed (well, I would say that, given my username, wouldn't I?)

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Whether or not there is really any point in having a 64 foot on the pedals, I'm surprised noone has questioned the idea of a 32 foot on the manuals.

 

I have played two such organs, Lausanne Cathedral, Switzerland (Gt 32 flue) and Lake Avenue, Pasadena, USA (Gt 32 flue, Sw 32 reed) and vouch that in both cases the 32 genuinely does add noticable extra oooomph when reaching the climax of a dramatic piece. definiately not something to overdo, but I found a use for them, espeically the reed (well, I would say that, given my username, wouldn't I?)

 

Yes there are quite a few 32' manual stops around the world. Atlantic City only had one manual 32' which was the Sub Principal on the Great. I'm really surprised that there aren't any other 32' manuals on this organ.

Sydney Town Hall, Australia has the 32' Contra Bourdon, and the Melbourne Town Hall, Australia has a 32' Contra Tromba (or something like) on the Great and a 32' Contra Violone on the Swell since the Schantz rebuild in 2000.

 

JA

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There's one on the Grande Orgue but not on the Pédalier at the restored Dom Bedos organ at Ste-Croix Bordeaux.

 

http://www.france-orgue.fr/bordeaux/index....zpg=bdx.org.cpn

 

 

Oh that organ!!!!! :lol: One of my real favourites in the world.

 

In case anyone's worried that there ought to be a 32' on the pedal, because of the unusual compass (starting at F below our usual octave) each of the (listed) 16' stops includes the equivalent of half of a 32' - the most useful half, probably.

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Yes there are quite a few 32' manual stops around the world. Atlantic City only had one manual 32' which was the Sub Principal on the Great. I'm really surprised that there aren't any other 32' manuals on this organ.

Sydney Town Hall, Australia has the 32' Contra Bourdon, and the Melbourne Town Hall, Australia has a 32' Contra Tromba (or something like) on the Great and a 32' Contra Violone on the Swell since the Schantz rebuild in 2000.

 

JA

 

 

Swell-Choir Fagottto 32ft on the midmer losh as well.

So it has a reed and a flue at 32ft on the manuals

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Of course, in the UK, there is Liverpool and Ely cathedrals and the RAH !

 

.........and Doncaster PC, Melton Mowbray PC, Norwich Cathedral, Newcastle Cathedral.........albeit some of these at least not full compass.

 

AJJ

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.........and Doncaster PC, Melton Mowbray PC, Norwich Cathedral, Newcastle Cathedral.........albeit some of these at least not full compass.

 

AJJ

 

Ah - has the organ at Melton Mowbray Parish Church still got a 32ft. stop on the G.O.? According to the following, it has, but I do not recall it having one when I played it:

 

http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N04533

 

As you mention, some examples (including that on the above instrument) are of incomplete compass.

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