DHM Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Apologies if this question appears slightly off-topic. Since hardly anybody sings the Credo liturgically any more, I'm thinking of including a couple of settings in concert programmes for our choir later in the year. What would be your favourite 19th/20th century English-language settings with organ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgp Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Howells Coll:Reg. Other would be VW in g but its unaccompanied & in Latin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Cooke Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Darke in F - splendid and arresting Tuba solo at "And the third day, he rose again..."; Schubert in G - wonderful, atmospheric Credo in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Drinkell Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 All the above. The Tuba blast in Darke in F is indeed very fine but that in Howells's Coll Reg is at least as good. Dvorak in D is worth a look. Too long for liturgical use (here, anyway) but lots of nice music in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 The Credo settings from Stanford's Communion services in G or A (in that order) are worth investigating. Their texts are in English, as you specified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Further to my earlier message, I've just listened to the Credo settings from Stanford's services in B flat and C on Spotify (recorded by Durham Cathedral twenty years ago on the Priory label), and would commend these for consideration as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHM Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Many thanks for all the helpful suggestions so far. Just to emphasise: there's almost zero chance of our ever singing the Credo liturgically, hence my plan to include some in concerts. And I'm only considering accompanied 19th/20th century English-language settings - of which the following are already in our repertoire (though I've never yet investigated their Credos): Darke in E and F; Harwood in A flat; Howells Coll. Reg.; Ireland in C; Oldroyd "Quiet Hour"; Stanford in C and G; Sumsion in A. Any comments on the quality (or otherwise) of the above would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_L Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 There is a Mass setting, in English with organ, by Horatio Parker - op. 18 - in E. Does the Basil Harwood Mass setting in F contain a Credo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Cooke Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 All very subjective, but for concert use, I would say that Schubert in G would be the best fit. The whole Mass would make an excellent concert item and can readily be done with organ accompaniment - Carus do an excellent organ edition copy on three staves. I must say that, for concert usage, it could be good to revert to the Book of Common Prayer order of the musical items (with any of these settings) so as to end with a triumphant Gloria, rather than the more penitential Agnus Dei. Would that be terribly controversial?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHM Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Martin, many thanks for your suggestions, but please see my post of last night. Perhaps I should also have clarified: not only English-language, but also British composers. I know there are lots of excellent Viennese Masses out there, but that wasn't the point of my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Drinkell Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Jackson in G is full of character. It is (or was) published separately from the rest of the Communion Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Cooke Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Martin, many thanks for your suggestions, but please see my post of last night. Perhaps I should also have clarified: not only English-language, but also British composers. I know there are lots of excellent Viennese Masses out there, but that wasn't the point of my question. Ah - sorry - missed that! Of course, as a child, I sang the Schubert in English. Sorry not to have got the point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Much as I love Howells, I don't rate the Coll. Reg. communion service. I much prefer his Missa Aedis Christi, but whether the Credo is concert material I'm not so sure. A pity it has to be with organ. I would have recommended the Credo from Leighton's Missa Brevis: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Cooke Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Much as I love Howells, I don't rate the Coll. Reg. communion service. I much prefer his Missa Aedis Christi, but whether the Credo is concert material I'm not so sure. A pity it has to be with organ. I would have recommended the Credo from Leighton's Missa Brevis: Mmm... surely, a Missa Brevis is a mass setting without the creed - this link appears to be to the Gloria of the Leighton in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Bother. Obviously I wasn't concentrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Drinkell Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think the term 'Missa Brevis' strictly refers to a setting, including Credo, which is short. Don't some of the Viennese settings come into that category, including the Little Organ Mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 That's correct, David. Palestrina's Missa Brevis includes the Credo, doesn't it? Yet Martin's comment is also valid to the extent that it is now common for Missae Breves to omit the Creed, presumably precisely for the reason that DHM bemoans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Drinkell Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yes, and it's not uncommon to have the Credo set to pseudo-plainsong, as in some of the Healey Willan missae brevae. Historically, the Credo in Viennese masses tended to be a matter of getting through the words as quickly as possible, even to the extent of having different voices sing different words at the same time. The Little Organ Mass is an example, and indeed the Gloria in that mass takes about thirty seconds to sing. I imagine that , while there may have been a lot going on at the altar during movements such as the Benedictus and the composer was thus able to spread himself, during the Credo brevity was of the essence. Schubert in G (if my memory serves me) omits the words 'et expecto resurrectionem' and "et vitam aeternam saeculi", although whether that was for brevity, because Schubert forgot or because he didn't believe any such thing, I have no idea. Our practice in St. John's is to sing the Creed to Merbecke but everything else to a setting. This is as much as anything a practical move: we can manage to learn and rehearse everything else, but the Credo would tip the scales in the wrong direction. I sometimes find myself wishing we did the Creed in Darke in F and Coll Reg, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_L Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Our practice in St. John's is to sing the Creed to Merbecke but everything else to a setting. This is as much as anything a practical move: we can manage to learn and rehearse everything else, but the Credo would tip the scales in the wrong direction. I sometimes find myself wishing we did the Creed in Darke in F and Coll Reg, though... We had a similar practice. Sunday by Sunday, at High Mass, we sang the Creed, antiphonally between congregation and choir, each accompanied by different organs in the grand (now slightly defunct!) French tradition, to the Plainsong Credo I, III or IV on a changing weekly basis whilst Kyrie, Gloria, Sanctus, and Agnus Dei was sung to a setting. But on 'Very Great Days' (usually once a year!) the Creed was sung to whichever setting of the Mass had been chosen for that particular celebration. Sometimes it was a long haul for the choir - and for the congregation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Godden Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Rubbra: Missa Cantuariensis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Drinkell Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My gosh, yes! Fine piece! Peter, I remember gate-crashing you at Inverness Cathedral many years ago when I was at St. Magnus. You had a baby in a buggy next to you while you practised. Alas! that fine old Hill has gone and there's a big toaster there instead.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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