OmegaConsort

I pretty much agree with all the positive comments here.......again, one or two strange moments don't otherwise distract from what is a well-written work which is as pleasing for the performers as it is for the listeners (both high and low-brow). I used to sing it as a boy every Good Friday, but really came to appreciate it through the Barry Rose Guildford recording which is still the best for atmosphere in my mind. finally aren't those hymn tunes to die for...Ooops - unfortunate turn of phrase! Richard

I have just been into the church which is now gutted. It will be closed for one year. The floor is coming up, the walls are being replastered and the ceiling reguilded. Major construction will be carried out underneath to form new meeting rooms. The organ was taken away as described earlier in another post...I found out that much did go for scrap (but only old casework which was late victorian, bellows and the like). The rest of it (pipework, soundboards, console etc) is, i think gone to Goetze and Gwynn. I assume that at somepoint, it is going to be rebuilt in the church?

What a fascinating post - thanks so much for all the information MM! I dont know either of the churches or their organs, but was nevertheless very interested to read what you had to say. I did play the Bridlington organ once (when I was 12, on holiday!). It is the only experience I had of this builder and I remember, it blew me out of my seat! It seems a real shame if these instruments were simply broken up and thrown away. All rather depressing really - which leads me to another point (as much "off-thread" as we currently are in "Youtube"!), if Cynic were still a member of this forum, I bet he would now be posting telling us he has half the Bradford pipework in his house organ; not only that, but he would probably list all the pipe scales too! Am I the only one who not only misses his brilliant posts and responses to posts, but also feel over the last couple of months that his absence makes this forum feel rather less interesting than it should be? Who is brave enough to start a "bring back Cynic" post then? And whilst we are at it, perhaps Lee Blick should be asked to return! Best wishes Richard

Thanks for that Tony. Do you know what happened to the organ (I see the 32 flute was transferred to the new instrument)? Also, now the church is closed, do you know what the fate of the most recent instrument is? Best wishes

What an exceedingly interesting point you make. I am sure that they compare each other regularly, but I wonder how often they actually listen to a real organ - even a single rank drawn and played up the keyboard from the bottom to the top; what an exciting and interesting journey that can be on a 19th century village organ somewhere in the wilds! I must now shut down my computer! Best wishes Richard

Yes - sorry David - my use of wording was not well considered. I hope you accept my apologies! What I meant was, it isn't an "off the shelf" model so I am told. The spec will be unique, the console and layout will be specific for the church etc etc...tho I suspect whatever I say will be torched, and quite rightly so! Best wishes Richard

The toaster is a three-manual Eminent Cantata with drawstops. Amps and speakers are on the West End gallery. This is a temporary instrument. I think the idea is that after the church restoration is completed the church will purchase a custom-built three-manual Eminent using the existing amps and speakers. Richard

Is Richard Seal of their generation, or a bit younger? Whichever, he also has/had some rather special qualities as a choir trainer, mentor, conductor etc.....

Ditto me too! Years ago I bought Nightwatch on LP and managed to get the CD on ebay a little while ago - it is really good! You can listen on Spotify - a lot of his stuff is uploaded...well worth a go!

Surely this is the case with many of our cathedral organs En Chamade? Off the top of my head, the following suffer similar problems to Lichfield - Winchester, Salisbury, Ely, Canterbury, Worcester, Southwark, and so the list goes on. In fact, any Cathedral where the organ is positioned in either the Quire or a transept. Having said that, the primary purpose and use of a cathedral organ is to accompany the services which are mostly held in the Quire. Therefore it could be argued that these instruments are perfectly positioned for the role in which they were designed! An added problem with Lichfield is the acoustic which is very dry indeed. Best wishes Richard

Doh! Thanks Stephen - searched for ages and came up with nothing! Mind you , having now looked at the site, it is not particularly information-rich is it! Nice photo of the new case tho Best wishes richard

Thanks for this information Martin. I would love to go and see the new organ sometime and am pleased to read it is now installed. I just tried to find a website for the church - there doesnt seem to be one which I find most suprising for such an important building. Also, NPOR is not yet up-to-date and there are no location photos on the H&H website either. Ah well - I'll just have to drive over and see it!! Richard

I wouldn't know about the pitch of the Grove, but I would have thought that the location of the instrument (hidden away in the North Transept, with the console on the Eastern side) would make it very difficult to use alongside an orchestra at the head of the nave?

Yes! I sang in this 3 times in the early/mid 1980's as an alto dep with St Mary's Warwick, who sang with the Bluecoat School Choir (nearly all items combined but one or two solo slots for each choir). I remember the three services vividly - fantastic atmosphere, packed house, and brilliant playing from John Pryer who improvised at the end on the Grove organ (the rest of the service was played by John Belcher on the Milton organ with its 5 manual Walker console). Simon Lole conducted some items and a chap (whose name escapes me from the School), did the rest. I dont ever remember the Elliot organ being used. Best wishes

Yes....I spotted the organ working too - and it was not long after they discussed trying to get the electricity working and decided not to!

Did anyone see this two part film (a remake on the old original) over Christmas? I thought it was very gripping! Anyway, in part two, the two chaps stumbled upon a convent. There were many external shots of the abbey church and one or two internals.....I couldn't place it at first and am still not sure (there was nothing in the credits). I have a feeling it might be the Abbey Church of St Cross in Winchester - along with their alms houses..... Any takers? Richard

I am willing to be corrected on this, but I would have thought that during the current economic climate no builder is too busy to be worried.

I wouldn't say that is the case! I, and no doubt many others are big fans of Harrison organs (I am also a Willis, Hill, Tickell, etc etc fan). Each builder has good and bad points not necessarily per instrument. One thing about Harrison, as others have mentioned is the wonderful consoles such as Redcliffe and Durham (the same care and attention is also poured into many small organ consoles by the same builders). I also love the Willis House look from the early to mid 20th century with the black jambs... Richard

If I remember correctly the old nave "Bradford" organ was sold on Ebay a little while ago. Don't know about the Rodgers one

Thank you for all this Freddie - we will indeed watch this space! Perhaps you might like to start a new post for the Hoar Cross instrument as news comes in, and....welcome to the Mander Board! Best wishes Richard

Please don't Cynic....sleep on it...tomorrow is another day and I for one feel the discussions on this board would be shorn of a great deal of illuminating information and jolly commentary if you resign. I have no idea which builder you are talking about, and don't need to know either, but the Mander Organs board is probably not the appropriate place to hang out dirty washing in terms of competitors' wrong doings....despite your obviously strong feelings regarding this. On another subject which is (almost) taboo - digital organs - I have great interest, but since JPM's appeal not to discuss them, I have stopped; not because my interest in them has ceased but because I respect the stance of moderator on this subject because of what Manders is and what it stands for. A final shot.........reading through the last four or so posts it looks to me like both sides have got hot under the collar and should go away and reflect......I am sure that JPM would (tomorrow) be as sad as the rest of us if Cynic did resign.. Best wishes Richard

More like quirky in my opinion and it befuddles the congregation (although I suppose that might be considered a good thing!!). Richard

Nice idea! Harris - Holy is the true light Shephard Responses Blair in B minor Wesley - The Wilderness Final volley - Fanfare Whitlock Richard

I guess everyone must be on holiday! Interesting question which I cannot answer just now, tho I am sure I have something tucked away with a possible answer somewhere. On the same subject tho, I was in Westminster Cathedral a few weeks ago. If you walk up the North Aisle of the nave, and into the central altar area, but staying on the North side, up high on the transept wall (I know there isn't a a real transept!), are what appears to be a few ranks of pipes set back in a shallow gallery (metal and wood)..... Does anyone know what that is about? Is it connected to the Apse organ? Richard

Here! Here! sense at last.....having read through recent posts concerning attracting audiences, it all smacked a little of dumbing down. At the end of the day call it what you will, but someone playing the organ in a church or a concert hall is going to attract an audience of a size that is governed by so many factors, many of which are not alterable by either the performer or the publicist (weather, location, oposing attractions.....). I can't imagine Martha Argerich giving a piano concert at the Wigmore Hall; can you? If one agrees with that, then why should Simon Preston (for example) give an organ concert at Westminster Abbey?