S_L

Post deleted by SL - in the interests of maintaining reasonably cordial relations!!!

I always find it interesting, and I know that I am going to be 'shot down' for this comment, that the 'amateur' organ builders, often, sometimes, maybe, or, possibly not, very fine players, have so much to say when a specification of a new or rebuilt instrument is released! I suppose that is part of the nature of the organist make-up! I knew an organist when I was an Undergraduate at Cambridge who spent his days designing what he considered to be the smallest 2 manual and pedal instrument it was possible to think of that would, satisfactorily play whatever he wanted it to (he considered organ music died, by the way, in 1750!). It was a complete waste of his time, his degree suffered and he has, since, disappeared into obscurity, presumably still following his dream! I looked at the specification and wondered why they might want a drum, some bagpipes and a nightingale (5 pipes immersed!). I also wondered how close to the Abbot's stall the Abbatial Trumpet was going to be and, at one point, felt slightly sorry for the Abbot! But then I thought that the instrument, I suppose, is going to cost upwards of a million pounds, (VH. 'fastbuck' Abbey is a bit of a cheap jibe, I thought!), The people on the ground, it isn't the work or dream of one person, which will include people who work and worship in the place as well as a highly competent consultant, know what they want the instrument to do, they have a vision. Who am I to comment? They know the building and how it behaves and they know the kind of sound they want the instrument to make. They're not going to be pressured into spending money unwisely and will have to, at some point, justify their spending and the cost of the instrument. Presumably, there is a reason behind no 32' flue, a cornet de bagpipes or whatever and who are we, on the back of our 'fag-packets' to criticise or be-little, or even to comment, on their expertise and vision. We might have done it differently - but the point is, we aren't doing it - they are! And, of course, we all look forward, in 2017, to hearing the final result - and then some will be saying "I told you so!!" - for whatever reason!

I played the 'Widor' on a one manual and no pedals - with 2 trombonists playing the feet!! Interesting experience!

I was thinking about Norwich, Salford and possibly Wrexham (which is the one I can't find on NPOR). And then to my list were added Sheffield and Plymouth.

There might be another one - and I can't find anything on NPOR about it. So that will make FIVE, including Sheffield, the one we can't/won't name and two others, one of those with a Hele instrument also present!

I was wondering about that one! So, as Damian says - that makes four!

I'd forgotten about Joseph Cooper, a very fine musician - I used to play his variations on "Yes, we have no bananas" - in the style of Schumann! Sorry - doesn't help!

Yes - that's one of the places i was thinking of1 I played St. Marie's Cathedral organ years ago for a wedding. The console was almost underneath the pipework and you had hardly any idea of the amount of sound you were making. It was quite scary! But I thought I had read, somewhere,that it had had some work done on it recently and I thought it was used for the installation of Ralph Heskett CssR, the new Bishop of Hallam. If it hasn't been done then I can't see it being done in the future - enough said!! ............... and then there is one other RC Cathedral with a pipeless instrument!

.......................................... and then, of course, there are Cathedrals of other Denominations!

I can think of two RC Cathedrals which have pipeless instruments in them. In one case the old pipe organ has been removed completely. In the second case the Victorian instrument is still there and, I'm told, playable! I visited about three years ago and I seem to remember it was tucked away in a corner - looking at it I couldn't imagine it being suitable for the building it was in - which is, possibly, why there is a pipeless instrument in use!

As mentioned above the only music of Browne's that exists is the contents of one box of surviving pieces held by the archive of Clare College, Cambridge, plus one other autograph manuscript held by the British Library. In a letter to Edward Dent written either the day before or even the day of his death, in 1915, Denis Browne wrote."It’s all rubbish except Gratiana, (perhaps) Salathiel Pavey, & the Comic Spirit...Everything else except what I’ve mentioned must be destroyed." (King's College Archive Centre PP/EJD 4/61) Robert Athol, the Edgar Bowring Archivist at Clare College, may be the person to contact. Good luck in your search. (Further digging has resulted in "some Latin Church music has been performed in Westminster Cathedral") - it might be worth an e-mail to Martin Baker or Jenny Forsyth, the Music Administrator there. Clearly it wasn't all destroyed!

I'm interested to know why you couldn't use it in a normal service! I expect all know this recording!

I was also in Paris yesterday - and had lunch not too far away from St Eustache - I wish I had remembered!

The logic is, surely, that if Buckfast are commissioning a large 100 stop organ there will be plenty of scope for the designer to to include, in the specification, a whole range of stops that can be suitable for playing a wide range of repertoire but also be suitable for accompany the liturgies of the Abbey including plainsong sung in choir. As fr as the cost is concerned, I'm not sure that, on a public forum, we should be discussing where or how an institution has managed to raise funds for, what some may think is an extravagant or even unnecessary, project. The point is that they have the funds and, seemingly, are going to go ahead with an exciting new instrument. There will be, amongst the 'amateur, back of fag-packet' designers much discussion, I'm sure, about whether this type of mixture or that type of mixture or this stop or that stop should have been included and so on. That is for the future and, no doubt, when the specification is public we shall see an outpouring of verbiage on this topic. But certainly, a comment made "in a confidential tone" should remain just that - confidential!

I apologise but I just can't resist it - the 'Punch' cartoon comes to mind and, if it raises a smile, on one of the dullest first days of spring I have seen for a long time, then it's worth it!! http://punch.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Modern-Cartoons-Punch-Selection-See-Galleries-for-Complete-Set/G0000jQbkmC.sE9M/I0000ZvleumhOmDo It's a good job they didn't have a 'mechanical solution'!!!

???? - Am I missing something - or just being thick?

Why not contact Ben Mooiman - who is playing on that recording. He teaches at the Conservatoire in The Hague and is Organist of the Nieuwe Badkapel. The church address is: Nieuwe Parklaan 90 2587BV Den Haag The Conservatoire address is: Koninklijk Conservatorium Juliana van Stolberglaan 1 2595 CA Den Haag Hope that helps more than my previous suggestion.

Yes, true - and apologies for that!! And, as I said, I have no knowledge of UK law (I don't live there!) - and I would check, very carefully, before I did perform from a manuscript I described - but there are, clearly, plenty of people on here who can, and will, give you better advice than I!

I think, if I had drawn blanks everywhere and only wanted a copy of this piece for my own use and didn't intend to use it in recital, I would be tempted to copy it onto Sibelius from the link above! It wouldn't take long, a couple of hours, quite enjoyable, work I would say! And if I did intend to use it in Recital I would put a footnote in the programme notes as to where I had obtained the manuscript of the music. I'm not sure about the legalities of this and, I'm certain, others will shoot me down for it but, if after extensive search, a manuscript is not available, it seems to me, at any rate, that the only way this music will appear in the public domain is the course of action described above. Otherwise it disappears into the 'sands of time'!! (SL ducks and akes cover - as the shots start to fire!!!)

I've also submitted data, in one case, over two years ago - and it still hasn't appeared! I also offered to be trained in order to assist updating data for the NPOR! At first they seemed interested and then the person, I was corresponding with, moved on and I had an e-mail that left me thinking that I wasn't suitable!

My children, all of whom are peal-ringers, know it as 'the cage' and, indeed, I'm told that it is scary! They do say that ringing at Imperial in London is also scary - because you can look out over South Kensington and realise that the tower is moving, and not just slightly either, with the movement of the bells. Gloucester Cathedral is supposed to be a bit hairy too - I think my second son told me that you have to go outside along the roof before you get to the bell tower - but I may be wrong!

Much underrated music - in my opinion! I have Paul Derrett's recording of both of Guy Weitz's Organ Symphonies - from Hereford Cathedral - as well as an assortment of other smaller works by Weitz.. The music is a joy to listen to!

Nick Gale's death will leave a void in the UK that will be difficult to fill. His total enthusiasm for promoting the good singing of Plainsong will be very sadly missed. Requiem aeternam dona eis Domine.

I notice that you haven't cared to tell us what "slush-bucketism".is - nor commented on what you mean by the 'stubborn residence' of the Director of Music!

Slightly off the subject - for which I apologise! I don't go up to Paris very often but, when I do, I usually attend Mass at St. Eustache. I was there a few months ago. There seemed to be quite a few people in the organ loft and the improvisation before Mass began was completely amazing - it was also, I think, at one point, the loudest noise I have ever heard - totally deafening! (A most 'unorganistic' thing to say but I really thought the instrument was going to jump off the back wall!). The voluntary after Mass I didn't recognise but, again, it was very loud, extremely virtuosic ('showy'), and based on very fast, repeated notes with continuous changes of manual and registration. The playing of the orgue du choeur at Mass was excellent and the antiphony between the two organs in Credo III and the Gloria Missa VIII was well timed - clearly both players knew the building and the instruments extremely well! As an aside, I often sit, as a member of the congregation, in one or other French Cathedral (I have four cathedrals within an hour's drive from my home). All of these 'employ' a Titulaire but the quality of improvisation and general playing - (I heard some dismal Buxtehude a fortnight ago!)) varies considerably and doesn't come anywhere near what one hears in quite a number of the Paris churches on a Sunday morning - or, indeed, at any time! The quality of playing of the Orgue du choeur also varies - and, sometimes, it is really dismal!