S_L

What a disgrace! - who do they think they are? What is it about the clergy, sorry - some members of the clergy, that makes them think they are an authority on everything? This is precisely the reason why, Sunday after Sunday, I sit in the pews - as do hundreds of musicians who just can't be bothered with the aggro!! - either that or they just don't go!!

I suspect it's the wrong branch of the same clan! Sir Alexander McDonald who gave the huge 4 manual organ to Rudston Parish Church, where he was organist for over 40 years, was a member of the McDonald's of Sleat whose home, since about 1847, has been in Yorkshire - at Thorpe Hall, Rudston. I knew the organ in the very early 1970's when it was a large two-manual. Since then I notice that a choir organ has been added 'in the style of the orginal' as well as swell and pedal reeds. The church is tiny, full organ must be deafening, and the organ case completely covers the West wall of the church. On entering the building you are immediately confronted by this large organ case which, I understand, suffered bomb damage during the 2nd world war. The console is in the chancel and, in truth, the instrument is 'nothing special' save that it must be one of the largest village organs in the land! (dangerous statement!) It might be 'nothing special' but it's well worth a visit for members of the board who might be on their way to organ recitals at Bridlington Priory. Going along the A614 Driffield to Bridlington road turn left at Burton Agnes, just before the hall. Rudston village is three miles down this road. The benefice of Rudston, Carnaby, Boynton and Kilham has the incumbent living at Rudston - the vicarage is opposite the church. In previous times I was always made to feel very welcome when calling in.

Oh dear - that's rather amusing. I'm sure whichever member of the family it was thoroughly enjoyed being addressed as 'Your Grace' - which is reserved only for Archbishops and Dukes or Duchesses. Baronets are addressed as 'Sir' or by their name! You probably gave advice to the 8th Baronet, Sir Tatton Sykes, although I do know that the subject of re-build was on Richard Sykes' mind prior to his death - he had initiated the 1947 re-build.

I find it quite interesting that congregations on the continent seem more receptive to 'modern' (whatever that means!) noises than British congregations. I've heard quite dissonant 'chorale preludes' preceeding a hymn in Germany without, seemingly, any reaction from the congregation and, in France, I've heard 'modern' French composers - Messiaen, Alain, Durufle etc. (modern - all dead!!!!) played after Mass. Indeed some improvisations I've heard during offertories or communions have been hugely dissonant but totally accepted by those in the pews. I think also there is a slightly different attitude towards the organist abroad. Often he/she is shown a good deal more respect (is that the word I want?) as a professional person than in this country. I was in Chartres on 15th of August a few years ago. After 11am High Mass in the Cathedral, at which there were quite a number of very 20th century improvisations during the ceremonial, we went for lunch. At 3pm there were Vespers, the Psalmody sung in the church down the road, followed by a huge procession through the city, complete with statue, to the Cathedral - to be greeted by a loud and strident improvisation before a full Cathedral sang a plainsong Magnificat to a huge 'French' organ accompaniment. Vespers finished and, at 5pm, there was to be an organ recital. I expected the Cathedral to empty but the people just sat there waiting. Eventually Patrick Delabre, the titulaire, gave an hour's recital that included some Bach but mostly included 'modern' French music followed by an improvisation. The cathedral was packed for the recital and at the end it was very obvious that there was real affection and appreciation for the player. Why is it in this country that we put up with 'Mrs Boggins' telling us what to do? Why do our congregations feel that they can tell us, often in no uncertain terms, what they think everyone wants to hear? What have we done to put us so far down the ecclesiastical 'pecking order'? How do we rectify it?

Interesting turn of phrase!!!

Absolutely. The last time I auditioned someone for a post I said that the audition would consist of 'those things which, as a church organist you do every day' They arrived with volumes of Bach, Messiaen (heard about my musical tastes!) and so on and were surprised when I gave them a hymn tune to play. I suggested that they played the tune through several times to completely familiarise themselves with it. I then suggested several scenarios. 1) I needed the hymn transposed - semi-tone - tone - minor third! 2) I needed a 'Chorale Prelude' to preceed the hymn (even in small-town churches, German organists do it all the time!) 3) The hymn had finished but a procession was still taking place - continue with a free improvisation - until I tell you to stop! I then asked them to accompany an anthem - on the organ in situ - making sure that they could follow a beat and had the musicianship to accompany! Following a beat is something organists tend not to do until they get their first job. I started my life as a 'cellist, following conductors of all shapes and sizes! but I have known a good many very fine organists who can play all the notes but who can't follow a beat! I automatically assumed that, if they had a Diploma of some sort (depending on the diploma, of course!) that they had the ability to play notes by themselves - and they took their Bach - Messiaen off home with them without opening it! I was talking about this very thing the other day to the Titulaire of a very well known church here in Birmingham. Both of us agreed that our Universities and Music Colleges are turning out some very fine players but that the art of service accompaniment and all those things that go along with it - transposition - keyboard harmony - improvisation - hymn playing - are not a part of the organist's curriculum as an undergraduate. It's a shame - because it should be!

My wife was a member of Sykes family. Prior to his death in 1978 the organ was played on a Sunday by Sir Richard Sykes, the 7th Baronet. I know the great organ in the little village church at Rudston, an old vicar was a close friend of mine. It may be that the Sledmere organ is still played by the person you mention. I am up that way soon and will try to be there on a Wednesday or Sunday and call in. Rudston Parish church - the rebuilt present organ: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=P00645 The original organ given to Rudston village church by Sir Alexander McDonald of the Isles: http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=N08144

I suppose all of us would choose music that is part of our history, music that is a part of us. I started my life as a cathedral choirboy, learnt to play the ‘cello, went to University and music college – and my memories are, very much, reflected in my 10 'records' for my desert island - which would probably change, perhaps even daily! However there are some pieces that will always be on the list which, in chronological order, I give below: Palestrina - Super flumina Babylonis Four unaccompanied voices - Renaissance polyphony the final 'suspendimus' does things to me almost every time!! Monteverdi - Sonata sopra Sancta Maria from 1610 Vespers’ I remember the first time I heard this and couldn't believe that the work dated from 1610 - the fusion of the invocation 'Sancta Maria, ora pro nobis' against a rich orchestral background amazing! Bach - G major cello suite. I heard Casals playing unaccompanied Bach right at the end of his life. It was the most wonderful experience and made me cry. Brahms - Symphony 2 D major. Brahms 'Italian' symphony full of big tunes full of fresh air!! Vaughan Williams - Sea symphony. I love Vaughan Williams' music. I remember him well, as a small boy. That moment in the first movement where the choir begins 'Token of all brave captains and of all intrepid sailors and mates and of all that went down doing their duty'’ – this island race!! Elgar - 'cello concerto - du Pre recording I learnt to play the Elgar when I was 15 and heard Du Pre play it with Barbirolli (who, himself had given the 2nd performance). Berg - Violin concerto Alban Berg's violin concerto was written 'to the memory of an angel' I was bought a record of the piece (with the Bartok violin Rhapsodies on the reverse side), for Christmas, when I was about 12! My parents didn't like it or understand it and, at the time, I think that was, possibly, part of the attraction. Now, of course, I know it to be one of the great violin concertos in the repertoire. Hindemith - Trauermusik for Viola and strings. I have asked that, at my funeral, the clergy do not preach and that, instead all present hear a performance of this short little piece, written on the day of the death of George V and performed on the BBC that night. The vla. (it exists in a vln. and vc. version) and piano version is no way as wonderful as the full string version but Hindemith’s harmony for the last movement, the Chorale 'Von deinem Thron tret ich hermit, O Gott' - 'Before thy throne, O God, I stand.' is just amazing! I remember every performance I have ever heard of this piece from the very first, in the old Memorial Hall in Beverley on a Saturday night, when I suddenly realised that I wanted to be a musician! Britten - Noyes Fludde.’ Genius is the only word I can find to describe Britten. His music is, all of it, superbly crafted. I can’t think of any bad Britten! His piano music sounds as if it was written by a pianist (it was!) and his cello music as if it was written by a cellist (it wasn't!). His vocal music shows a complete understanding of how the voice works! Tallis' Canon, first in F, in unison, then in a two part canon, then a big organ (better mention the organ somewhere!) interruption followed by the hymn in simple 4 part harmony and then the great procession of out of the ark of the animals singing the hymn in 8 part canon against the most amazing orchestral ostinato - what a way to end a work!! Stockhausen - Stimmung.’ I've heard this piece quite a number of times. It gives me peace and tranquillity in the busy day to day existence we have. Apologies for the long post. I hope that, if you don’t know any of the above (all pretty standard stuff really!) you might enjoy listening to them! (Since beginning writing there have been two other posts - and I've just realised I'm only supposed to have 8!! - hard luck!) Books: Algernon Ashton's 'Truth, wit and wisdom' - a collection of letters, written by the composer, Ashton, to the newspapers between about 1890 and 1902 - and some Tom Sharpe - perverse, dangerous humour!!!

Sledemre House in East Yorkshire, not NT or EH but, is owned by the Sykes family. There is a large three manual organ in the Hall which used to be played by the late Sir Richard Sykes on a Sunday afternoon. I drove past some time ago and there was a sign outside the hall saying that 'the organ is now being played'. There are numerous references to the instrument on the 'net' - it seems it is played nowadays on Wednesdays and Sundays. There also appears to be a recording made by Simon Lindley available 'only at the house' and I thought, although I may be mistaken, that Francis Jackson recorded some Stanford from there. http://www.npor.org.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch.cgi...ec_index=D05066

I was employed by a well known, and much broadcasted, priest to a part-time Director of Music position in the 1980's. There were real upsides to the job, the chance to form a new choir, a newly rebuilt organ and, seemingly, a lot of clergy and parish support. There were downsides. One was a complete lack of a contract "Christians shouldn't need to tie each other up with paperwork!". Secondly, I soon found out that this, seemingly supportive, priest was a complete control freak who could only see one side of doing things - his own!! We had some dreadful rows - but the choir went from strength to strength and, in general, things were looking good! Fees were a tricky area and he wouldn't discuss it. I broached the subject of wedding fees and it was made very clear that only if I played would I get the fee. It made for some interesting weddings!! One couple who didn't want to pay my fee brought their own organist with them - she was an FRCO!! I already had 2 weddings either side of this one and so went down to the choir room to prepare for the day after. Five minutes before the wedding the FRCO turned up wanting to know what the buttons were for above the keys!!!! Unfortunately my lack of Christianity came to the fore and I was unable to help! Eventually the control freak left and what followed were ten very happy years, still no contract, with a witty, totally supportive, Lancastrian priest who treat me as a professional person knowing that if I objected to something that it was for the best reasons - which may not necessarily be my self interest! Fees were paid to me and visiting musicians were welcomed as long as they could, in some way, prove their competence. A new Priest came - I lasted 6 months with him - there were advantages to having no contract - it meant I could leave with immediate effect - the shame was that, possibly, one of the busiest, most hard-working and adventurous choirs in the area disappeared in a weekend! I think things have probably changed since then - but, I think it would be true to say that, the Roman Catholic church still treats its musicians with the slightly less respect than a pig breeder does his pig swill!! I miss the 10 years with the witty Lancastrian - but the rest of it - I'm glad to be out!!!

I don't particularly need a history lesson from MM! ............................... and I'm not sure what relevance history plays in my contention that smoking in church, as far as I'm concerned, is wrong!

I am, frankly, quite appauled by the thought of anyone smoking in church. It's something only a thurifer does!!! I used to be a heavy smoker and can remember the days when I 'nipped outside' for a quick smoke during a long sermon or a a convenient point in a wedding ceremony. The thought of lighting up inside is quite abhorrent and, truthfully, never entered my head. I knew a priest who was also a heavy smoker. His house was attached to the church and, while we were talking, he was having a smoke. He nipped into church to get something and tucked his cigarette inside his hand. When I commented he looked at me blankly and said "God knows I smoke!" Sorry - can't cope with it!

There was, presumably, the predecessor of a coffee machine in the organ loft at Beverley in the days when Peter Fletcher was Master of the Music - i.e. the middle 1960's. I was 'up there' for a wedding one Saturday when E. B. Bull, the then vicar, started preaching. "Coffee time", said Peter - and started brewing up!

Perhaps because, this year is the 200th anniversary of his birth - and the 'Proms' tends to think like that!!

Pershore Abbey is spectacular isn't it. The NPO register gives a large 3 manual Walker organ put in storage in 2002 during the considerable restoration and re-ordering of the East end of the Abbey. There is now, as Omega Consort mentioned a resident 'toaster' as the main instrument. Survey date: 2009 Organ destroyed or broken up 2009 (Jan) - Pipes, some timber and Direct Electric chests removed to the premises of Jonathan Lane & Associates. Much material was scrapped because it was no longer worth storing after 13 years As far as the other instrument at the back of the Abbey is concerned, I have a photograph of it and, if I knew how, I would download it onto here!!! It looks Victorian and all within a case with twenty three front pipes, a little wider than the keyboard which has a drop down (and locked the day of my visit) shutter which looks as if there is only room for a single manual. The are no pedals but a matching bench and footstool. The picture looks quite sad, the organ looks totally unused, is clearly in a very 'domestic' part of the Abbey with tea urn on a trolley on one side and metal tables stacked up against it on the other. I can't see a hand blower and there looks to be a power point close by on the wall so, I presume, the bellows are electrically powered. Perhaps Jonathan Lane can shed some light on this instrument?

I don't have any problem at all about people coming to church for hatch, match and dispatch when they have no connection with the place - which is why, in my first post, I made the comment about not being precious about it. It's the same as the drunk who turns up at midnight Mass - as long as he sits quietly and behaves himself I have no problems - something draws him there. Archbishop Maurice Couve de Murville of Birmingham once said, "the church is for sinners, which is why you and I are so happy there!!!" I've played the organ with so many people in church that they were sitting on the organ bench - it didn't even bother me when they made reasonably polite remarks, you can imagine the kind of comments "look he can play with his feet too!". I've played in all kinds of situations, including in prison for morning service where a prisoner once came up to me and thanked me for coming. I don't care that they don't know whether to stand up or sit down and I don't think that those who are regulars should make people feel uncomfortable because they don't know local protocol. The problem I have is when they become rude and abusive - or, in the case of brides, excessively late!!

I could write a book about 'visiting' musicians. Sometimes they were good, more often than not they were awful with some interesting experiences in between. There was 'Auntie Gywnedd' who wanted to sing 'di Ave Maria' (usually Bach/Gounod), a chap who was going to play the organ and sing at the same time, various relatives of the bride with varying degrees of incompetance who miss beats out all over the place making Bach/Gounod sound as if it has hiccups! And finally a lady who was going to play the organ for the whole wedding, the bride assured me she was an FRCO and so I left her to it. Eventually she came down to my office, with about five minutes to go, to find me to ask how to make it louder and what the 'buttons under the keys' were for! Then there was a local tenor ( I have to be careful here!) who had achieved a brief moment of fame on Saturday night TV. He arrived, complete with his Italian accent (fake!), and his copy of Bach/Gounod in some stratospheric key. I started playing and he opened his mouth. My playing clearly wasn't loud enough! "More organ!", he shouted at me, so I gave him a bit more. It still wasn't enough "More organ!" (the accent started to sound a bit Brummie!) - but it still wasn't enough. Eventually he stopped and looked at me "you play loud". So I gave him full swell with the reeds and the box half open. "That's a good", he said, well satisfied. At the end he offered me his autograph, surprisingly I declined!! Perhaps I will write a book - but nobody would believe me!! (to quote or paraphrase, Gordon Reynolds)

For those poor souls still at it, there is a lot of very sensible advice here.

Thats the best thing to do - make sure you get the fee, get out as fast as you can, go home, have a large drink and try to forget it - otherwise it starts to upset or annoy you!!! I'm so glad to be out of it.

In the days when I was playing regularly for weddings I had an agreement with my Parish Priest that, if brides were more than half an hour late, I could leave. When seeing wedding couples prior to the wedding I used to make it clear that I was happy for the bride to fulfil the tradition of being late by being a few minutes late but that anything else was just bad manners and that, if she was more than 30 minutes late, she would walk into church in silence. I only did it once in 20 years - brides tended to 'play ball'. The last wedding I played for was a nightmare and I was a visitor in another church. The organ was at the front in full view of everyone. The wedding was at 4pm and the guests had clearly been imbibing. At 4pm there was nobody in church. Eventually they started to drift in, talking loudly (mobile phones hadn't been invented!) with, very clearly, little idea of how to behave (I'm not precious about it but this lot were the worst I had ever seen!). I started to play quietly, I used to find that some quiet music often quietened the atmosphere. They started to make comments, shouting out "Could I play so-and-so"? Eventually it became unpleasant and I got off the bench to speak to the Priest. He refused to do anything, in truth I think he was in a difficult position, by himself with a hoard of drunken yobs. I made a decision - I'd had my fee and I walked out. I suspect that you will hear a wide variety of horror stories from organists on here. Doctors in A & E can tell the same stories - of people who have no idea how to behave and who seem to have different standards from those I, certainly, was brought up with. I find it a bit depressing. And then there is another side. A wedding I will never forget. A young couple came to see me after High Mass one Sunday morning to ask if I would play for their wedding. They didn't know any music, they didn't want the traditional music but they would leave the choice to me. They didn't want any hymns because there wouldn't be anyone to sing them. They were getting married with the minimum of fuss. They wanted to know if they could pay me there and then. The wedding was some time away and I suggested they put it in an envelope and gave it to the Priest at the rehearsal but they insisted and counted it out in coins in front of me. Clearly having the organ played was something they thought was important and they had saved up to come and see me. I played the organ for their wedding. There were two other guests and that was it. As I drove home I saw them, newly married, standing at the bus stop waiting for the bus to take them to their flat. Later that evening I put an envelope through their door with a card and the fee - wishing them 'all the best' A world of contrasts.

Beverley - my favourite setting of all and, in the middle of winter, one of the coldest places imaginable (try playing 'continuo' in Messiah in gloves!!! - I did, year after year!) The organ case is perfect and in a perfect setting. The instrument inside is pretty good too!!

Talk about patronising!! If it wasn't your mother who taught you to read - I wonder who it was!! rolls eyes!!!

Talking of big reeds!! Does anyone remember the solo reed on the old St. Chad's Cathedral organ in Birmingham? I think it was called 'Trompeta Argentina' - or something similar. I was in the congregation one Easter Vigil when John Pryer assulted us at the end with additional fanfares around the hymn 'Thine be the glory' - it was an amazing hymn accompaniment and the most deafening noise I have ever heard!! I was also at the morning Mass the last time the old organ was used. Mass ended with a billiant Pryer improvisation on 'When I am laid in earth' - beginning with the ground bass in G minor in the pedals and building up and up until a change to the major key and the last post sounded on the big reed - hugely entertaining, it kept organists crying in their beer for weeks!! I heard that most of the old organ went into the melting pot - a rank of wooden pipes, I think, were saved for the new organ but that the pipes of the big reed were also saved. I wonder what became of it?

Yes I do feel that strongly and thank you for that - it was something I hadn't realised existed!!

No I won't accept and move on. I find this comment offensive and not acceptable on a board such as this. I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about!!! I repeat - I think this comment has no place on this board. The implication by the **** is obvious - it is offensive. So - when will the moderator comment?