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I mentioned this somewhere else on this board. Visiting the GDB organ at York University in the early 70's I was standing next to an old organist who had been a pupil of Bairstow. On hearing the 16' reed on the Brustwerk she indignantly exclaimed "I don't care what K**** J***** says - it's not a musical noise"!!!

Tempted to make a comment about some of the dross, I see another one has joined the ranks, who are given knighthoods - but won't!! (suppose I already have!!!) ........................... yes it is high time!!

I looked at the music list too - my only thought was how different life is going to be compared to the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool!! I did notice that "The Cathedral Organ is now in a period of its life where it requires major work to be undertaken" and that "The Cathedral is delighted to announce that Mr Colin Walsh, Organist Laureate of Lincoln Cathedral (UK), has agreed to be its Organ Consultant." The Music List at Auckland certainly wouldn't attract me after Liverpool where, rumour has it, there are said to be a million copies in the music library. I would also find it hard to leave the stunning architecture and endless musical possibilities that Gibberd's wonderful building affords. The possibility of a major rebuild of the organ might tempt one to apply for the position - they say that every priest wants to build his own church - perhaps the same could be said of organists - every organist wants to leave behind him the instrument he designed/had built/conceived. If I was younger and felt myself qualified for the position, a life in New Zealand though would certainly attract me! Swings and roundabouts!!

It was part of the weekly bulletin this week that Timothy Noon is to leave the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool for a similar post at Auckland Cathedral in New Zealand in September.

I think that playing hymns well is very difficult and so many, very fine, players play hymns badly. I don't know whether I can tell you how to play hymns, I think it's something that you just do - perhaps you do it well because you have been a member of a congregation or choir before you got onto the bench!! Obviously technique comes into it but, perhaps, it also comes from your own convictions Firstly I think you set the speed by imagining yourself singing the hymn, you set realistic speeds for the numbers in the congregation and the acoustic of the building and you play rhythmically. You count in-between verses - leaving always the same rest. You think about play-over and verses and play the words as far as registration goes. Only the other day I heard a player, who had 'been through the mill at Kensington Gore' (or wherever!) and had survived to decorate his name with diplomas, playing a simple hymn tune that I found was almost unsingable due to his playing! Afterwards he played a voluntary that was very fine but practising hymns, or even looking at them beforehand, was clearly beneath him! The hymn playing completely spoilt the ceremony and the organist had forgotten why he was there! Difficult subject!

I'm a convert to Catholicism but my wife, a 'cradle' Catholic listened to the 'You Tube' recording and knew the hymn. Unfortunately, following her stroke, her memory isn't good but she was able to sing along with the tune and they clearly sang it in her church, back home in Yorkshire, in, possibly, Pre-Vatican II days. She thinks it might have been in an hymn book called 'The Crown' - but thats a book I've never heard of! It's easy enough to transcribe from the recording but, failing that, you could try one of the 'traditional' Catholic churches - perhaps try the Birmingham Oratory where there is a priest who might be able to help you - or the London Oratory which was, I think, founded by Fr. Faber. Message me for the contact at Birmingham. Added Just 'googled' it. It's in the old 'Leeds Hymnal', the 'St. Andrew's Hymnal' and 'Hymns for Catholic Schools' People seem to think that its a hymn from the Northern Provinces!!! Further added Try 'St. Mungo Music' - the Liturgical resource of the Archdiocese of Glasgow.

In retirement I decided to buy a Notaton programme and, about three months ago purchased 'Sibelius 6'. I'm so glad I did. I found myself playing, rehearsing and composing for a little church for their Easter Triduum. 'Sibelius 6' did everything I wanted it to do - an excellent programme and I would thoroughly recommend it.

I thought the Rutter, as nearly always with his vocal writing, was a well crafted, well written piece, clearly written by someone who thoroughly understands the human voice. ............................................. I just don't like the noises he makes!!! The rest of the music, some of which wouldn't have been my choice, but it wasn't my wedding, was executed with that thorough professionalism you expect from James O'Donnell and his team.

I began my life as a 'cellist only wandering to the organ when I got fed up of listening to bad playing on a Sunday!! Widor wrote a wealth of music other than organ music including a number of works for 'cello. The Concerto, which dates from 1882, is the largest of these works and is particularly fine. There is also a Sonata, some earlier pieces for 'cello and piano and a Suite, written in 1912. Harold Truscott lent me the score of the Concerto and I still have a copy of it. I learnt it in my twenties but have never performed it in public. However I have played both the Sonata and the Suite publically. His 'cello parts tend to be quite virtuosic - high in the register, whilst the piano parts are often thick and difficult. I, too, have recordings of the Bb Piano Trio and the D min. Quintet.

Certainly the rubric of the Roman rite allows for the bells to be rung and the organ played during the Gloria on Maundy Thursday and here at the Oratory in Birmingham there is an improvisation before the Gloria on that day. The Oratorians are notorious for 'things done properly' and, after all, the Mass of Maundy Thursday is the celebration of the Institution of the Eucharist - a cause for celebration so, I suspect, that is their interpretation of things. The organ has been silent for the whole of Lent, except for Laetare Sunday and, after Thursday's celebration, both organ and bells, including the sanctuary bells are indeed silent until the Gloria of the Vigil. However local customs will, I suspect, prevail and different people will do diferent things in different places.

How about crab sandwiches at Crabbies Crab shop at Salthouse - only a brisk walk away!!!!!

Don't forget the 'Gloria' at the Evening Mass on Maundy Thursday - at the Mass of the Last Supper - again with the ringing of the bells!!

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Only your opinion - which, of course, you are entitled to! I think it would be highly appropriate to ask 'Max' to write something for the wedding though, I have to say, I think his orchestral writing, the 3rd symphony particularly, and the writing for solo voice such as 'Eight Songs for a Mad King' are better than his choral writing. We, on rare occasions, used to perform an 'Our Father' which, on the page, looked rather dull but was, in fact, rather good to sing. I much rather have a new piece by Peter Maxwell Davies than have to listen to some ageing 'Pop' star churning out a re-work of something he had written earlier. The funeral of Diana had, standing beside each other, performances that were quite sublime, who can forget the Purcell, sung in Procession, next to the cheap and tacky. What worried me the most was that the cheap and tacky got all the approbation. Only my opinion of course!!!

I said it was his claim - I don't necessarily agree - in fact, I have long since agreed with Nigel Allcoat's theory, without knowing it! It doesn't alter the fact that Joseph Cooper was a hugely talented man.

He was, indeed, called Joseph Cooper - and a fascinating man he was too. He had been a boy at Clifton College, winning a scholarship, and then organ scholar at Keble where he was friendly with Ted Heath, then organ scholar at Balliol. After University in Oxford he became organist of St. John's, Smith Square. The 2nd world war interrupted his pianistic studies but, leaving the army with the rank of Captain, in 1947, he gave his Wigmore Hall recital. He gave a number of performances with the Philharmonia orchestra and made his 'Proms' debut in 1953. In 1954 Walter Toods asked Cooper to take over the music quiz 'Call the tune'. This eventually became 'Face the Music' which went onto BBC2 in 1972 and ran for 13 years. He produced three books of improvisations - 'Hidden Melodies' in 1976, 'More Hidden Melodies' in 1978 and 'Still more Hidden Melodies' in 1978. I remember playing a version of "Yes we have no bananas" in the style of Schumann!! He was a hugely skilled musician, although he always seemed to like to present himself as being a bit 'lightweight' . With Vaughan Williams he prepared an edition for two pianos of the VW Piano Concerto but his real claim to fame was his claim that he had 'discovered' Elgar's Enigma. Cooper maintained that a theme in the slow movement of Mozart's 38th symphony, the 'Prague' had not only identical notes but also identical rests and that Elgar had been at the Leeds Festival the day before he started work on 'Enigma' and had heard a performance of that symphony. He died in 2001

We are very fortunate, here at the Oratory in Birmingham, to have John Pryer as our 'titulaire'. The choir sing a motet at the offertory and while the incensing is taking place he often improvises on it - often brilliantly. To improvise well I think you need several important musical attributes. Firstly a vivid imagination borne of a considerable knowledge of repertoire. Secondly, a thorough harmonic knowledge and, thirdly, a real command, in the broadest sense, of the instrument you are playing and of your own technique. I suppose the rest is just practice and confidence - dead easy really - or not!!!!

I think thats a rather unfortunate thing to say. True the new incumbent described himself to me as "the most evangelical vicar the Abbey has ever had", but I had a genuine feeling that he wanted only what, he saw, was best for the Abbey. Certainly he wanted an instrument that would do the job it had to do - and, if I read his comments correctly, he wasn't precious about an historical restoration. It's good to remember that people change - often according to new places and new circumstances - he might see that there is a place for both his new guitar and 5 watt combo amp (clearly 'bombarde32' knows what this is!!) as well as hundreds of kids in church on a Saturday night (a la Beverley Minster!) and a rebuilt pipe organ and a fine choral tradition - I think Shrewsbury could be a quite exciting place to be!

Isn't that the famous Hoffnung cartoon?

This thread has gone a long way 'off topic' - its possibly my fault - and, for that, I apologise!! I'll try not to post any more on my experiences 'in foreign parts'

That's all very well - and I don't disagree with any of that, particularly the comments about language and communication - but sometimes it isn't practical or possible to to a) do a recce or talk to the resident organist. (Can you imagine trying to contact the 'organist' of St. Peter's in Rome?). It's usually possible to find someone who knows the place - particularly in Rome or the big Italian cities - but, again, in my experience, advice given isn't always reliable!! I wouldn't touch a tour company with a barge pole apart from allowing them to organise accommodation and travel and, even then, I would be wary. (We sang Palestrina 'Missa Pape Marcelli' in the Cathedral at Palestrina, some 30 miles outside Rome and months and months later I was still haggling over the £300 the tour company wanted to transport us there!). Sometimes you just have to trust to instinct - but it's worth remembering that it's all a different mind-set - especially in Italy and also, to a lesser extent in France. But, to those of your planning tours this year - enjoy them!!

I also know the organ at Shrewsbury Abbey - though only very very slightly. I know slightly more of the 'new' set-up - which could be really exciting for all concerned. I knew the place had some 'history' but I do wonder how many ex-Directors of Music there actually are lurking in the wings!!! I'm very happy to admit that, compared to many on this board, I know little about organ restoration and, had I been in a position where I had an instrument like Shrewsbury in my care, I would have sought lots of different opinions and asked for lots of advice. However it seems to me that you can talk as much as you like about restoration, about sympathetic restoration, about returning the Shrewsbury instrument to its original/intended state - but remember this - the instrument has a weekly job of work to do - and any rebuilding/restoration and so on has to enable the instrument to do that job of work. If, at the end of the day, you have an instrument, returned to its original or even its intended state but an instrument that doesn't do the job then, as far as I can see, you've wasted your money!!

I think anywhere in Italy is a bit of a 'hit and miss' affair. The week we were in Rome we were due to sing in the Basilica of St. Paul outside the Walls on the Tuesday morning. We arrived at about 9:00 to do a rehearsal at 9:15 for 10:00 a.m Mass, to be greeted by a fairly truculent official who had it in his diary that an American choir were supposed to be singing that morning. - he had us down for the following day. I speak some Italian, he spoke no English, and so I did my best to explain to him that this was impossible as, the day after, we were singing to John Paul II at an audience. I also had the letters from the Dean of the Basilica confirming our visit for the Tuesday. Mention of the Dean and John Paul II and he got the diary and triumphantly drew a pencil line through the name of the American choir, wrote our name in its place, became very friendly, got the key to the organ and showed us were we could put our things and change prior to a short rehearsal. About 10 minutes later the American choir turned upl!!! - they weren't too pleased but stayed for Mass and seemed to appreciate a programme that was entirely unaccompanied and included the Vittoria 'Missa O quam gloriosum'. As for using the organ, it was in a dreadful state, virtually unplayable, miles from the sanctuary where the choir were singing. Our organist used it to improvise during the offertory of the Mass and to, somehow, manage to play a fairly spectacular voluntary afterwards. The American choir had brought with them music for choir and organ. Quite how they would have performed it, i'm not sure. Moral of story. It's not like a Cathedral visit in the UK. Don't expect big, prestigious churches, in Italy, to have wonderful instruments. Turn up early, be prepared to argue, take all the paperwork with you, don't expect the organ to work or be anywhere near where you are expected to sing from and be prepared to change your programme, at the last minute, to suit the ciurcumstances. ................................... and if you can, try and find someone who has been there before and ask them what it was like!!!

I did the Thursday morning English Mass there in 1990. Fortunately, the year before, the choir of Lichfield Cathedral had sung at the same celebration and I had written to Jonathan Rees-Williams to ask him of his experiences. Somewhere I still have his very witty letter, written in reply. It basically said to forget doing anything major that involved choir and organ and sing unaccompanied music. It also warned me of a 'mad nun' who had a habit of grabbing a microphone and singing Taize chants, loudly, down it - without warning! When we arrived she was, fortunately, nowhere on the scene - but, from his warning, I suspect he must have experienced her!! My worst experience was one Sunday morning taking a choir to sing in the Metropolitan Cathedral in Liverpool. The coach broke down just off the motorway outside Liverpool. The driver tried to get another coach but eventually several members of the choir, having changed to save time at the other end, and so dressed in cassock-albs, flagged down a service bus and persuaded the 'good Catholic' bus driver that it was an emergency with a "take this bus to the Metropolitan Cathedral". Where his destination was we had no idea but, at that time in the morning the bus was empty and he did as he was asked and they arrrived outside the great 'wigwam' at 10:20. The rehearsal had to finish at 10:40, prior to High Mass at 11:00 - on the programme that morning the men of the Abbey choir were singing the Durufle 'Cum Jubilo' Mass - in an acoustic, much maligned and, actually, quite comfortable - when you are used to it!! As someone else has said - I'm sure that, between us, we could write a book - and we would all recognise the scenarios and the characters that we had met on the way - even if we really find it difficult to believe that it happened to us!!!!

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