headcase Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Anyone out there wishing to add Vierne's Messe Solennelle in C# Minor to their Choir Library ? I have a set of ex-choral society copies, consisting of two full scores and 39 choral scores. All in good condition - a few pencil markings here and there. Would cost approx £ 330 new. If interested, please contact me off list, via the message board. Reasonable offers considered. Headcase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Love this work. I recommend the recording by Westminster Cathedral Choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Anyone out there wishing to add Vierne's Messe Solennelle in C# Minor to their Choir Library ?I have a set of ex-choral society copies, consisting of two full scores and 39 choral scores. All in good condition - a few pencil markings here and there. Would cost approx £ 330 new. If interested, please contact me off list, via the message board. Reasonable offers considered. Headcase Not trying to undermine Headcase's kind offer, of course, but I feel moved to point out that Vierne's entire oeuvre comes out of copyright this year - he died in 1937. Therefore, provided that the score you copy has been in print for more than twenty-five years, you can simply take anything you want to the machine without either shame or fear of prosecution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Love this work. I recommend the recording by Westminster Cathedral Choir. I love it too, but why not go for the real McCoy in terms of recordings? I have two "live" recodings, one in Notre Dame with Pierre Cochereau at the Grande Orgue, which is exciting and spectacular but not always together, and the other a much slower, but always atmospheric, recording from Sacre Coeur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgp Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I love it too, but why not go for the real McCoy in terms of recordings? I have two "live" recodings, one in Notre Dame with Pierre Cochereau at the Grande Orgue, which is exciting and spectacular but not always together, and the other a much slower, but always atmospheric, recording from Sacre Coeur. Another very 'French' recording is from Chartres in the version with Brass and Timps. The vocal quality of the tenors is rather variable but the Kyrie is spine-tingling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heva Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I consider Cochereau's reading the best of all yet mentioned; nice entry at the Gloria, feels like they're lifting NotreDame's roof ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee Blick Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I will have to look out for these recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Not trying to undermine Headcase's kind offer, of course, but I feel moved to point out that Vierne's entire oeuvre comes out of copyright this year - he died in 1937. Therefore, provided that the score you copy has been in print for more than twenty-five years, you can simply take anything you want to the machine without either shame or fear of prosecution. That's right! A lot of compositions are already available in cheap reprints (Kalmus/Mastermusic, Dover, bnote), and the rest will certainly follow soon. By the way: the German publisher CARUS starts a new critical edition of Vierne's complete organ works in 13 volumes, edited by David Sanger. I suppose this edition will include all the corrections which are listed in Rollin Smith's famous study about Vierne. Vierne complete edition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 I love it too, but why not go for the real McCoy in terms of recordings? I have two "live" recodings, one in Notre Dame with Pierre Cochereau at the Grande Orgue, which is exciting and spectacular but not always together ... Oh yes - I have this (unsurprisingly). It is incredible! I do sometimes wonder if Pierre was entirely sober when he made the recording. He commences the Kyrie on the tutti - and works up from there. In fairness, it is little wonder that there were occasional lapses in the synchronisation, since the choir generally recorded from the central space at the crossing of the transepts. Even David Briggs experienced some slight difficulty when playing the Grand Orgue part for his Messe Solennelle a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Goldrick Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think there is only one notable moment of the Cochereau/Notre-Dame recording where the synchronisation suffers. It's those massive off-beat chords at 'Tu solus altissimus' at the end of the Gloria. Cochereau's entries in the Kyrie are spot-on and it's the most spine-tingling recording of all. It's interesting that Westminster Cathedral recorded it twice: Once by Hill (With brass) and by O'Donnell. I think the organ only is more effective actually. Though the organ is not nearly prominent enough at the return of the Kyrie in the O' Donnell recording. I actually think the Dupre Quatre Motets are the highlight of this disc. Despite the variable quality of the choir, the recording at Sacre-Coeur is probably the most authentic recording around in terms of the original Cavaille-Coll sound. Plus the added bonus of Naji Hakim playing the Embrace of Fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolsey Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 It's interesting that Westminster Cathedral recorded it twice: Once by Hill (With brass) and by O'Donnell.I think the organ only is more effective actually. I don't recall David Hill recording the Vierne with the Westminster Cathedral choir. Are you thinking of his Langlais Messe Solennelle recording? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I think there is only one notable moment of the Cochereau/Notre-Dame recording where the synchronisation suffers. It's those massive off-beat chords at 'Tu solus altissimus' at the end of the Gloria.Cochereau's entries in the Kyrie are spot-on and it's the most spine-tingling recording of all. The recording certainly spine-tingling. I have not listened to the recording for a while, so I cannot recall exactly where the synchronisation suffers. THis is definitely the most exciting recording of those to which I have listened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roffensis Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Love this work. I recommend the recording by Westminster Cathedral Choir. That's a superb recording, I agree. The choir sound superb. Does anyone know the Sacre Couer, Paris one, ditto the old Notre Dame de Paris one. The Sacre Couer is interesting also for a very slow rendition of Mulet Tu es Petrouchka, all good stuff. Both choirs a bit awol perhaps!! R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil T Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Despite the variable quality of the choir, the recording at Sacre-Coeur is probably the most authentic recording around in terms of the original Cavaille-Coll sound. Plus the added bonus of Naji Hakim playing the Embrace of Fire. I have this recording. According to the notes, it was inspired by a concert given to commemorate the rebuilding of the organ. Despite the occasional bout of “pub” singing from the choir, it’s a very good recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Goldrick Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I don't recall David Hill recording the Vierne with the Westminster Cathedral choir. Are you thinking of his Langlais Messe Solennelle recording? I'm unable to find it but a few years back I downloaded a recording of the Vierne MS apparently by Westminster Cathedral but recorded with brass and organ in the Gloria etc. I assumed it was David Hill as James O'Donnell's uses the organ only. The Sacre-Coeur recording was the first complete recording I heard after hearing the Briggs/Gloucester Kyrie. The 32' Bombarde at the end of the first four movements is just phenomenal and Naji Hakim's solo playing wonderful too. I was initially skeptical of the tempo of the Mulet 'Tu es Petrus' but it is now my benchmark recording. Needless to say, the Embrace of Fire is jaw-dropping: The 32's at the start nearly destroyed my speakers! The Grande-Orgue entries in the second movement is some of the most exciting organ playing recorded and the third movement is just a heaven of quiet solo colours. It's a pity recordings of this organ are so hard to come by. Are there any particular recommendations? JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 It's a pity recordings of this organ are so hard to come by. Are there any particular recommendations?JG The problem is that the church is open to the public day and night, so there aren't any quiet hours to make good recordings at really professionel conditions. Besides the recording mentioned above there are some further recordings by Hakim (Priory), and I can warmly recommend the all-improvisation-disc by the former titulaire, Daniel Roth (Motette), which is an absolutely stunning demonstration of these exceptional instrument (MOT 10751: "Le grand orgue Cavaillé-Coll du Sacre Coeur a Paris"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I was initially skeptical of the tempo of the Mulet 'Tu es Petrus' but it is now my benchmark recording. By the way: the name of the piece is 'Tu es Petra' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Goldrick Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 By the way: the name of the piece is 'Tu es Petra' Got my chants and toccatas mixed up! Actually, I've never understood why it is Petra and not Petrus. Is it not the Tu es Petrus verse he is paraphrasing? "Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam. Et portae inferi non praevalebunt ad versus eam: et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum." Incidentally, has anyone ever heard Grunenwald's setting of this text for choir and 'deux orgues'? Absolutely spectacular. JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Treloar Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Can someone tell me what label the Sacre Couer recording is on, please, it's one recording that's passed me by. Many thanks. I assume that the Grunenwald is not available as a recording. I recently bought the CD of Saint-Martin's Mass for choir, two organs and brass at Notre Dame (Cochereau et al) - that blows the dust around a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Actually, I've never understood why it is Petra and not Petrus. Is it not the Tu es Petrus verse he is paraphrasing? "Tu es Petrus, et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam. Et portae inferi non praevalebunt ad versus eam: et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum." 'Petra' is the latin word for 'rock', and therefor the original text reads 'Tu es petra, et super...' etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headcase Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 Can someone tell me what label the Sacre Couer recording is on, please, it's one recording that's passed me by. Sacre-Coeur recording is on Motette CD40081. The singing is not of a high standard but the atmosphere is terrific and the solo organ items very pleasing. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 'Petra' is the latin word for 'rock', and therefor the original text reads 'Tu es petra, et super...' etc. At the risk of making a fool of myself, the vulgate is indeed Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram..., in other words "Thou art Peter and upon this rock..." Question is: what was Jesus doing punning in Latin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florian Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 At the risk of making a fool of myself, the vulgate is indeed Tu es Petrus et super hanc petram..., in other words "Thou art Peter and upon this rock..." Question is: what was Jesus doing punning in Latin? Perhaps he was as good in Latin than I was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Sacre-Coeur recording is on Motette CD40081. The singing is not of a high standard but the atmosphere is terrific and the solo organ items very pleasing. H I certainly recommend this CD - which I first mentioned on this thread - and which has been widely discussed. The recording of "Tus es patra" is just phenomenal - certainly on the slow side - but what sounds! When the pedal reeds and kitchen sink come in for the final bars its just fantastic. Turn the volume up and b*****r the neighbours. The Notre Dame - Cochereau recording I only have on cassette - does anyone know if its currently available on CD, it would be good to upgrade. Straying even further off subject, I also have a treasured CD, FYCD 019, entitled "Les Offices du Dimanche a Notre-Dame de Paris" consisting of organ improvisations (Cochereau), incantations and choral items recorded live during Sunday offices. I think its just amazing. Does anyone else have this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innate Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Question is: what was Jesus doing punning in Latin? One can only hope that the pun works in Aramaic or NT Greek too! James Joyce described the Roman Catholic church as "founded on a pun". Actually, I just remembered that Peter in Greek is Boutros, as in the former Secretary General of the UN (who wasn't actually greek but that's neither here nor there). And I think that's the Greek word for rock, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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