DHM Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 If anyone has a copy to hand (sorry, I don't at present) of the 1982 Hymnal of the Episcopal Church of the USA, there are several congregatgional settings of the Eucharist at the back end of the book, some modern, some less so (including IIRC Oldroyd's Mass of the Quiet Hour!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stanley Monkhouse Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 At Barlow in Derbyshire, we sing Gloria to Shaw, and Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus and Agnus to Merbecke. The Paternoster is a local setting. 11 am Mass every week, no incense on 4th Sunday of the month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Coleman Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 no incense on 4th Sunday of the month. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Why? Perhaps it's because they like to get a good-sized congregation at least once a month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Coleman Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Perhaps it's because they like to get a good-sized congregation at least once a month? Don't you know that it keeps the worm and beetle away from the organ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Don't you know that it keeps the worm and beetle away from the organ? True. But, on the other hand, at one of our daughter churches they used to "brew up" the incense before the service - and leave it after the service - next to the air intake for the organ blower. The incense deposit inside the organ made a very effective glue inside the leather purses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Kemp Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 In jest (well,at least partly) - I thought the service wasn't valid unless incense was used? More seriously - at a church known to at least one other member of this Board an, admittedly extremely poor, pipe organ was rendered unplayable because when a major redevelopment of the church crypt was made the architect managed to put the main heating duct right next to the air inlet for the organ blower. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Probably a subject that has been raised before, but we're looking to introduce one or two new mass settings into our repertoire. They would have to be congregational (as good as choral settings may be). We currently do Mass of St Thomas (everyone's favourite, mostly in festival seasons), Gregory Murray (boring but the vicar likes it because its very "singable") and the DOM's own setting. Has anyone any other recommendations? The vicar wants something that the congregation can pick up fairly easily, but the choir want something thats reasonably interesting. We're already looking at a few settings but I wondered if anyone has any suggestions. Oop ere in Kendal, we have two congregational settings in rotation with each other at the moment: Thorne (generally on even numbered Sundays) and our own "Holy Trinity Settings," cobbled together from one of those RSCM Music for Common Worship collections. (Kyrie from Healey Willan "Missa Sancta Maria Magdalenae," Gloria by John Barnard, Sanctus & Benedictus by Martin How, Agnus Dei by Katherine Dienes - all different, but all hanging together quite harmoniously!) I discovered a setting by John Harper about ten years ago - "Mass for All Seasons," which is in unison and can be accompanied by piano, organ, electronic organ, guitar ... or nothing at all, depending upon what's available. Melodic lines designed to be singable with or without a choir to lead them. Published by RSCM (well, who else?) and probably worth a look if you're nursing a choir that's down in numbers... Another useful one is Richard Shephard's "Wiltshire Service," although the congregational part doesn't always match the soprano of the choir part, thereby leading to the odd complaint "we can't sing that 'igh, tha' knows!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald Bayfield Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I remember seeing the score of a mass setting by Gerre Hancock, then the organist of St Thomas on Fifth Avenue which is now occupied by John Scott. I no longer have the score but I remember the congregational part in the Gloria was based on a well-known hymn tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Clark Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Has anybody looked at the "German Mass" by Schubert, published by (I think) GIA publications in an English version. Parts of it - Kyrie and Sanctus particularly, work well but the Gloria has some infelicitous word setting. 4 parts throughout but "easy tunes" for the congregation. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombarde32 Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Has anybody looked at the "German Mass" by Schubert, published by (I think) GIA publications in an English version. Parts of it - Kyrie and Sanctus particularly, work well but the Gloria has some infelicitous word setting. 4 parts throughout but "easy tunes" for the congregation. Peter Quite a few Catholic churches use this one. It can also be found in the 'Laudate' hymn book. It is singable by even the most limited choir, and sounds most effective, especially on the more solemn occasions and for the month of November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Clark Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Quite a few Catholic churches use this one. It can also be found in the 'Laudate' hymn book. It is singable by even the most limited choir, and sounds most effective, especially on the more solemn occasions and for the month of November. Indeed; I used it at the funeral of a good friend, and former chorister, just last Monday. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveHarries Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I have three personal favourites: - Darke in E - Darke in F - Mass of St. Louis (Speller) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I have three personal favourites: - Darke in E - Darke in F Dave You use these as congregational mass settings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 You use these as congregational mass settings? If I used those as congregational mass settings, I think I'd keep it darke.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Kemp Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 We sing a carol called "In the darke midwinter" by Harold Bleak. Once on an Easter Sunday morning we did the Vaughan Williams Te Deum in place of the final hymn at Mass and the congregation moaned that they couldn't join in; could we please go back to Stanford in B flat which they all knew and could join in! Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Once on an Easter Sunday morning we did the Vaughan Williams Te Deum in place of the final hymn at Mass and the congregation moaned that they couldn't join in; could we please go back to Stanford in B flat which they all knew and could join in! Malcolm Join the club... At one of my old places, the congregational singing of responses and psalms at Choral Matins was a perpetual thorn in the DoM's side. He found it frustrating, as did everyone in the Choir, that it was necessary to do the boring Ferial Responses every week and have to lead the psalm as if it were a hymn, no matter how many subtleties had been perfected at Friday practice. Occasionally he got his way - set Responses by Rose, Leighton, Shephard et al for Festival services, or an unaccompanied Psalm 121 to Walford Davies, or a live radio broadcast in which the Choir could quite rightly "take possession" of the psalm. Of course, whenever he did, there were grumbles! (Incredibly, those doing the grumbling were in a minority, but had enough clout - well-lined pockets, perhaps? - that they were heard by the powers-that-be. Never mind that the service was, and still is, "Choral" Matins!) Tomorrow I shall find out if it's a similar thing in my new place: I'm doing the Haydn "Little Organ Mass," meaning that the Congregation and Voluntary Choir won't be able to do all their usual bits. The Boys are singing it wonderfully well, and I'm sure they'll do me proud, but I won't be surprised if there's some grumbling............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 This reminds me of a lady who was a good friend of my parents. I remember her saying that on the (hopefully rare) occasions when she attended a cathedral service she would always join in the psalms and anything else she recognised. "The choir give me dirty looks," she said, "but I don't care. Why shouldn't I be allowed to sing?" On the subject of grumblers, isn't it strange how the discontented are always more strident than the contented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Coleman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 On the subject of grumblers, isn't it strange how the discontented are always more strident than the contented? ...and also how church congregations seem to attract the disagreeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Kemp Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Perhaps the odd and the disagreeable - in the widest sense of the meanings of both words - find their way into church because they can't fit in anywhere else and nobody else wants them. I think of one person who is a total misfit in the real world and finds it difficult to keep a job yet they crop up at church events all over the place, playing leading roles. One priest I know once preached a sermon saying that Christianity is not a religion for successful people but one of tranformed failure. Yet it can be very depressing at times, especially the thought that we may all be as bad as each other. Some secular committees I have known have been every bit as bad as anything you would find in church but I hate committees anyway. There is a well known tale - possibly mythical - of either Norman Cocker or J Varley Roberts giving a severe reprimand to a lady who was joining in the psalms when she shouldn't have been. No doubt it has also been attributed to others. Just had an awful family Service - made worse by people accusing me of appearing to enjoy playing Shine Jesus Shine and that Sortie in E flat by you-know-who. Proper choral service this evening with Wood, Ayleward and Vittoria. Religious rant over! Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazman Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 There is a well known tale - possibly mythical - of either Norman Cocker or J Varley Roberts giving a severe reprimand to a lady who was joining in the psalms when she shouldn't have been. No doubt it has also been attributed to others. I have it on good authority from a friend who used to sing as a boy treble at Manchester during Cocker's time there that it was he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msw Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 This reminds me of a lady who was a good friend of my parents. I remember her saying that on the (hopefully rare) occasions when she attended a cathedral service she would always join in the psalms and anything else she recognised. "The choir give me dirty looks," she said, "but I don't care. Why shouldn't I be allowed to sing?" About six years ago I encountered a lady vicar at a small parish church in rural Yorkshire. The Choir of Selby Abbey were singing Evensong at the church (having done so every year by invitation) but this was the first such occasion during her time as incumbent. She was clearly not familiar with choral services and a few things caught her by surprise... She attempted to join in with the canticles - which, being Stanford in B flat, brought her to grief with the repeated phrases in the Magnificat ("of his, of his handmaiden") and the fact the only the Men sing the Nunc. Then, after the collects she announced the next hymn! Much tugging of sleeves and whisperings of "what about the anthem?" ensued. So the Choir got to sing the anthem, whilst she had another look at her BCP and realised her mistake... It's not just the congregation who need educating sometimes! To be fair, any worshipper (or member of the clergy) who has only ever known the ways of a small-scale parish church, with very little musical tradition left, is bound to be taken aback by a cathedral Evensong in which the Choir does the lion's share of the singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Clark Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Concerning the AGM setting: there is an almost unforgivable error on the cover, taken from the first part of the Kyrie.... how many have spotted it? (Cynic, I hope you have 'cos I gave you a copy when you were at St P's! ) P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Kemp Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I'd never actually looked in detail before; I suppose you see what you think you are seeing. However, I was doubly sharp when I looked at it this morning! I susepct that there a number of churches using that setting where the organist is quite capable of making the organ part sound as if that is what they are actually playing. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Concerning the AGM setting: there is an almost unforgivable error on the cover, taken from the first part of the Kyrie.... how many have spotted it? (Cynic, I hope you have 'cos I gave you a copy when you were at St P's! ) P If you mean the key signature missing from the keyboard part, I have to admit that I'd never noticed it... but then, I would tend to use the version inside the booklet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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