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That's right David. The 'little man' operating 'Oberwerk unenclosed' is, in fact, a hitchdown pedal! Lovely image!!!!

Those were my thoughts exactly, Zimblestern! ................................. but there are other places other than Westminster Cathedral!

'From the horses mouth' as it were! I did say that the pieces, which have the titles of the 'Stations', 'could' be preceded or followed by a Biblical reading - equally they could be interspersed by secular readings or by Claudel's 'Chemin de la Croix' which, of course, may lose some of it's power in translation. As for 'Protestant and generally monoglot Britain' - no comment!

I haven't played it or heard it live but I have listened to it - a number of times. Each of the XIV 'Stations', of course, has a title and could be preceded or followed with the appropriate reading from the Bible. I think, in 'Messiaen-ic tradition', I would be tempted to have the readings after the music. There is a recording which precedes the whole work with the Plainsong 'Pange Lingua' and, at various points between the 'Stations' includes other Plainsong (Crucem tuam adoramus, Christus factus est, Popule meus, Stabat mater dolorosa). I quite like the idea of breaking up a performance, of this, with readings and with the relevant plainsong and, I suspect, when it was written in 1931, that was how it was performed.. I don't think I would be tempted to use polyphonic settings of the Plainsong texts! The whole package - Dupre - Readings - Plainsong - would make a rather wonderful meditation for Good Friday evening and, in my reckoning would last just over the hour - perfect! I wonder why it isn't heard in the UK!!

................... and it continues: "But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful." Thank you for the pointer towards the Ronald Ebrecht book - I shall look forward to reading it.

I'm not sure I agree with either of the last two posters - I think I know where they are coming from and I can think of reasons why St. Peter's should have a monster organ but I speak from a certain amount of experience of having to produce music for a liturgy in the Basilica. What is the purpose of the organ? I presume, in a church, to accompany the liturgy - St. Peter's in Rome is not used for concerts! The heritage of the Catholic church in Italy is largely unaccompanied polyphony, the 'congregation' seem, even now, to be often spectators. And, of course, until the 2nd Vatican council this was the same worldwide. You went to Mass, the Priest said or sang the Mass, the choir sang the Propers, the Ordinary and the Common, accompanied or unaccompanied, and the people watched! Congregations in St. Peter's still do not 'join in' and, as Dr. Pykett has pointed out, there is a lack of 'stuffyness' about going to church in Rome, people come and go, the buildings are heaving and are noisy! This is not, and I am reminded of a thread about this very subject, a cathedral where, if he doesn't like the look of you, the verger will not let you into the choir for Evensong!! Where would you put a monster organ? Have you been in the place? Almost every nook and cranny is full of something, a fresco, statue, a painting, a sculpture! I just can't imagine! And, under Benoit XVI, who is a cultured man and a fine pianist, you might have stood a chance. JPII had no interest in music and the present pontiff seems to be the same. I know it is heresy to say it here but, and I always thought I would be the last person to say this, but I still think a high quality electronic with a first class speaker system that can be used in the Cathedral and outside in the square is the answer!

Correct! Thank you, handsoff, it has come back to me now!!!

I conducted in St. Peter's in Rome, just after Easter, in 1991 and, to put it mildly, it was a nightmare! The year before a Cathedral choir, local to my home, had visited Rome and I wrote to the, then, Master of the Choristers making enquiries of his experiences that might help me in our visit. He wrote me one of the most amusing letters I have ever received which basically said to be prepared for almost anything happening - including an over-enthusiastic Nun grabbing a microphone in the middle of a piece and singing Taize chants into it during our 'performance' . His, very firm, advice was not to choose anything which involved the use of the organ. I found the Basilica to be noisy, far worse than Notre Dame in Paris, and the sound just seemed to get lost in the acoustic. Quite what it sounded like down the Nave was impossible to find out with restrictions on when we could rehearse and, even, where I could move around the Basilica to listen to the rehearsal. In 2000 I visited Rome again, this time as a tourist. On the Sunday morning my late wife and I went to the Basilica for the morning Mass where I was asked to read the second reading in English. Standing under Bernini's Baldacchino, facing the main altar, whilst the choir were singing the Responsorial Psalm I could both see and hear the organ. It's sole purpose was to accompany the choir. There was no way it could accompany a congregation - even if they had wanted to join in! I was interested that Dave Harries used the term 'this most sacred place of worship'! Would that it were so, Dave. The behaviour of the Congregation, particularly in the presence of the Pontiff, is appalling, I was there last Easter, with constant chatter and cameras and phones continually being used. Tourists are, now, forbidden to walk around during a celebration but still the noise, in the acoustics of the Basilica is just incredible. In truth can't imagine how any builder could design an instrument that would cope with the building. Having said that I have at the back of my mind that there was, once, a scheme drawn up (was it by Ruffatti?) to put in a huge instrument - as we now know, it came to nothing! The letter , from the Association of Italian Organists, is couched in very colourful language. As far as I can see, and I do expect to be shot down for this, and for what it is used for, a high quality 'toaster' will serve he Basilica very well - or is that bordering on the realms of heresy?

Thank you for that David. My home city was Hull, although I haven't been back there for many years. 123 Coltman Street is still there - but not the house that Hollins lived in! And Wycliffe Congregational church, with its big 3 manual F & A was closed in the 1930's and demolished in 1939. Like you the weather here is pretty dreadful - although nowhere near the kind of weather you are having. We have temperatures of double figures but it has rained - and rained - and rained!!! I downloaded Hollins' book and it was a most enjoyable read. I also downloaded some of his pieces. They are, very much, of their time but most are well-written, well-crafted little, and some of them not so little, pieces. I shall enjoy playing some of them.

Correct - my mistake! (It was early in the morning!!!)

I thought that my statement might illicit interesting responses and thanks to OC and DD for that. Sitting talking the other day, with an organ builder, we knew about Derby and Downside but thought that St. Luke's Chelsea might have been replaced (It obviously hasn't!). Neither of us knew the Paddington instrument. I also remember Hull City Hall having an 'illuminated console' and I see at St. George's Stockport "its age is showing and there is an urgent need for major work to sustain this magnificent instrument." (St. George's website)

It is, or was, a magnificent beast. I haven't been in Hull Minster, Holy Trinity as was, for many years but I remember playing it in the days when the great Ronald Styles was organist. I know that the Minster has, recently, had huge amounts of work done and am pleased to see that they are, at least, considering a major restoration. It also must be one of the last Compton restorations that still has its 'press button, light up, console', which, if nothing else, must be worth preserving for that fact alone! (I can only think of one other!) Just down the road, at St. Mary's, Lowgate, the Binns, Fitton and Hayley organ, I'm told, is completely unplayable and is going to be, if it hasn't already happened, removed. Like Holy Trinity it has some Snetzler pipework in it. There are some fine organs around the Hull area and Barry is right, it would be nothing short of a tragedy if the Minster organ was allowed to go the same way as it's neighbour.

There are still organ scholarships available at: Bangor, Bath Spa, Birmingham Cons., Bristol, Hull, Kent, Cardiff, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Warwick, Huddersfield, Leeds, Liverpool, Royal Holloway, Sheffield, and York as well as Oxford and Cambridge and, also, a number of Universities, such as Manchester & Nottingham where a 1st study organist can read a music degree and receive tuition. And, in London, Organ tuition, is available at RCM, who also have at least six scholarships, RAM and Trinity Laban. Interestingly RNCM still list Thomas Trotter as 'International Tutor in Organ Studies'. I suspect that my list isn't complete!

Colin Thank you very much! Of course you are absolutely right - and I live, surrounded by vine fields and apple orchards - and my next door neighbour makes and sells me his own red for 3 euros a bottle and his cognac retails at 12 Euros a bottle! ..................... but on a Sunday morning I miss, desperately, a good hymn!!!!

I don't watch UK TV via the Internet! Most Brits living in France use a Recepteur Satellite to watch UK TV on our televisions! And you don't need a TV licence to do it and, before anyone shoots me down, it is perfectly legal!

Thank you for that Dave! There is a lot there to look forward to, a lot of music that, I suspect, quite a few people in the UK have not heard but is traditional in Finland, Austria, Bulgaria, Denmark, Germany, the Czech Republic and Portugal. There is quite a lot, too, that I have not heard and am looking forward to enormously as well, of course, as old favourites. Here in the depths of rural France we, naturally, get very little feeling of the traditional 'English' Christmas and so I am, particularly, looking forward to reliving memories and hearing the 'Kings' service on Christmas Eve and particularly to hearing the Judith Weir Illuminare Jerusalem, the classic Tavener Little Lamb and Francis Jackson's Hoy! Can I not syng but hoy as well as this year's commission, sung in Welsh, Carol Eliseus by Hugh Watkins. I miss a lot of things about England - excellent fish and chips, pork pies and traditional sausages, but, particularly I miss the good hymnody that you hear in 'traditional' establishments. It will be excellent to hear, once again, those traditional Christmas hymns albeit sans Willcocks descants accompanied by the splendid rebuilt Kings organ! Gaudete Sunday tomorrow - our Priest won't wear the 'pink kit' - it's a bit early but I wish everyone a very Happy and Holy Christmas.

I know that one of his former organs is in the Roman Catholic Forces Cathedral, of St. Michael and St. George, in Aldershot.

Yes, that's correct - Carlo Curley's ashes are buried within the grounds of Pershore Abbey

I rather suspect that it had nothing to do with the quality of the work but the reason the good sisters were fined was because the organ didn't belong to them. It may have been in their convent chapel or on their premises but, firstly, it was a listed instrument, an item of 'National Cultural Significance' and secondly and more importantly, the owners were the state whose responsibility it would or should have been to restore it. Is it the same in Spain as it is in France - churches and Cathedrals, and their contents belong, not to the church, but to the state? I suspect so! In the UK you don't have this problem - except of course, if a building/object or whatever is listed - and then you have endless amounts of bureaucracy to surmount before you can touch it. Sometimes a considerable nuisance but, If you think about it, this can be a good thing - it stops enthusiastic amateurs and the 'progressive thinkers' .......................... having said that it does seem a bit hard on the sisters!!

I remember the old Abbott and Smith in St. Paul's in Huddersfield - before the church was turned into a concert hall and the three manual Philip Wood put in. The organ was in a chamber on the right hand side of the, then, chancel. A reasonably large three manual with a big battery of Swell reeds, I played for a college service in there which included, the inevitable, Magnificat and Nunc in C by Stanford and the Parry anthem I was glad! I suppose it would be around 1971/2. At that time the chapel hadn't been used as a public church for a long time, nor, indeed, as a college chapel and the organ had fallen into disuse, was not used for teaching, and was 'a little temperamental' to say the least. However, most of it worked and the service went off without mishap - from the organ at least! I'm sure that, even at that time, Keith Jarvis had the designs for the new organ which, of course, was not installed until 1977. It was a fine old beast which, and I know others will correct me if I'm wrong, was entirely scrapped when the chapel became a concert hall.

Looks like we'll have to disagree on that!

Orford Church in Suffolk? It was a building I always wanted to visit and was totally amazed by it when I, eventually, did visit there. Totally magnificent - but so small! Where did Britten put the large children's orchestra (complete with slung mugs, wind machine, bugles and handbells etc.) for the first performance of Noyes Fludde in 1958? - and how many 'animals' did he manage to get into the ark on that occasion? - and then there are gossips, eight principal singers, the unseen God, a string quintet and piano duet. (I've conducted performances of Noyes Fludde, now, six times - the smallest performance employed an orchestra of about 50 with 60 animals - the largest had an orchestra of 150 and 360 animals!) I've always thought that Britten was a consummate craftsman. I'd even go so far to say that there isn't any bad Britten! - and I've always thought that the, very quiet, double pedalling at the beginning of the 'storm' in Noyes Fludde is inspired - you don't hear it below the Passacaglia subject - but you feel it! How did Ralph Downes, who played the first performance, cope with the little two manual Lewis - with it's solitary 16' Bourdon! Sorry to distract the thread - it's the the mention of Orford and it's associations with a work that can, and has, induced nightmares into the bravest conductor!

As usual a thorough and informative response from the good Dr. Pykett. I'm sorry, Colin, but I didn't understand a word of it!!! Physics and me didn't get on at school!

Yes - apologies for that - but I'm an hour in front of you!!!