David Coram Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 It's just not the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 It's just not the same... Yes, occasionally (over the last few days) I have seen his name listed as viewing certain threads. Perhaps nothing has sufficiently piqued his interest to prompt him to post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cynic Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 It's just not the same... I don't think I am breaking confidences to say that I had a private e-mail a few weeks ago from Pierre saying that he was fed up with the childishness of some of this site - he is a serious worker in the field and has always wanted his comments taken seriously. Since so many contributors are not known to him, and because of nommes-de-plume cannot be identified as serious organists or designers he has wondered about the validity of the site. I pointed out in my reply that for some of us this site is several things besides being a serious forum, notably an occasional light relief and a sort of hobby. I'm sure that there is room for all sorts of contributions. Sadly, if you read back on a few topics where he has posted, you might agree with me that he has occasionally come in for what might fairly be termed 'a bit of an attack'. This is regrettable. I suggest that those of us who have valued the fact that this is not just a petty little 'English' or 'Fun' site could write a few words to encourage Pierre. As some of you know, in addition to posting here, he runs his own site in English which I know he would appreciate me giving a little plug to: http://s11.invisionfree.com/The_romantic_organ/ and, to the best of my knowledge he is a moderator on an important French discussion board too. He is active as an organ-adviser/designer working closely with Gerhard Walcker. Those people who have sometimes suggested that he doesn't know what he is talking about are, factually, in error! My understanding is: His standpoint is different from ours: he has lived through the whole of the neo-baroque era (to its utter conclusion so far as Belgium is concerned) and now views the rarer remnants of the Romantic era with real appreciation. Would that more people did! Yes, Pierre....don't go the way of a number of other serious contributors. Don't let the odd bit of foolery put you off! Maybe one answer would be for Manders to consider providing a specific home for 'Lighter Side' contributions. That and, go easy on people you don't know, chums and chumesses! It's a bit unfair - people have always been nice to me here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 He is active as an organ-adviser/designer working closely with Gerhard Walcker. Those people who have sometimes suggested that he doesn't know what he is talking about are, factually, in error! I am aware that I have occasionally disagreed with Pierre. However, as I believe I have mentioned to Paul (or 'Cynic') Pierre designs his schemes purely from the standpoint of the historical and personal preferences. Even Paul has, on occasion, stated that he found many points of one or two schemes unsatisfactory. Whilst I hope that Pierre will continue to post here, he must surely accept the perfectly valid view that it is difficult to design an effective instrument which can cope with much general repertoire, purely from the position of a non-player; as far as I am aware, Pierre does not play the organ. Personally, if one is in the business of designing organs, I think that it is important either to have on the staff a good organist - or to take into consideration the views of those who are practising, experienced organists. I understand that Pierre has a wealth of historical knowledge, particularly of German Romantic instruments and I have learnt much from his freely-shared information. Notwithstanding, I am also aware that I have on a number of occasions questioned several aspects of his schemes and ideas which I believe to be either impractical, or difficult to assimilate in the contexts of both repertoire and service-playing. I further note that Pierre has, on occasion, been quite happy to enter into the spirit of some of the lighter posts - and with good effect. Personally, I would be glad to see him return. Notwithstanding our different outlooks, I very much enjoyed the exchange of views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Sadly, if you read back on a few topics where he has posted, you might agree with me that he has occasionally come in for what might fairly be termed 'a bit of an attack'. This is regrettable. I do agree, Pierre's absence seems to date from around the time of the nasty anti-Belgian comment that I criticised before. Perhaps an apology is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barry Oakley Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I do hope that Pierre has not taken his bat home for good and that he can be encouraged to return to the crease. I have always found his postings of interest, particularly that he puts a continental slant on many of the threads posted. If he has been pee'd-off by some of the juvenile postings I have more than a fair share of sympathy for him. Remember how many of us were fed up with scb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil T Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Since so many contributors are not known to him, and because of nommes-de-plume cannot be identified as serious organists or designers he has wondered about the validity of the site. I hope that Pierre will continue to read and post on this forum. I don’t see why not being a serious organist or designer should preclude anyone from being a member and posting on this site. Much of what is posted here is opinion not fact. An interest in and a passion for the pipe organ should be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldsmith Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I must express sympathy with the frustration imputed to PL. The continual refusal to think seriously about the instrument in different historical and cultural manifestations (expressed, for example, in the constant sniping at the poor old Tromba) is pretty depressing. Apologies if this sounds humorless, but these sort of remarks don't encourage discussion of any sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I do agree, Pierre's absence seems to date from around the time of the nasty anti-Belgian comment that I criticised before. Perhaps an apology is in order. ==================== Please tell me it wasn't me.....I don't recall saying anything ghastly about Belgium; wherever it is. I think I went there once, and ended up playing an organ in a small cathedral somewhere, which made a nice change from being dragged around military graveyards. Nice people, nice place, nice chocolates, and I DID enjoy driving very fast around the SPA circuit once. Poor Pierre deserves better: we can be such animals when we're not being kind and courteous to each other.....which of course, we usually are. (Sweet smile) MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Just a note to add my agreement to the views above. Whilst my enthusiasm for Romantic instruments is rather more selective than Pierre's, it is impossible not to respect his views and depth of knowledge very deeply. His posts have given me much to think about. Picking up Paul's suggestion above, I have sometimes felt that it would be a good idea to have a separate forum for the more light-hearted or off-topic posts. Some other forums I frequent have one and it does help the main forums to stay more relevant. Call it "The Vestry" or "Choir to Pub", or something. What do you think, Mr Mander? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I hope that Pierre will continue to read and post on this forum. I don’t see why not being a serious organist or designer should preclude anyone from being a member and posting on this site. Much of what is posted here is opinion not fact. An interest in and a passion for the pipe organ should be sufficient. In any case, since there has been an 'Introduce Yourself' thread (begun on 20-viii-2006), to which Pierre has alluded, I find this puzzling; surely, in the light of this, the objection to pseudonyms is somewhat irrelevant? The continual refusal to think seriously about the instrument in different historical and cultural manifestations (expressed, for example, in the constant sniping at the poor old Tromba) is pretty depressing. Apologies if this sounds humorless, but these sort of remarks don't encourage discussion of any sort. I must disagree - my own comments regarding tromba ranks were (and are) made in all seriousness - and from the practical point of being quite unable to find any music in which I judged their sound to be acceptable. Furthermore, I am equally saddened by the constant sniping at the organ of Gloucester Cathedral, an instrument which I regard as equally musical (in an entirely different style) as the superb Walker instrument at Bristol Cathedral - or the FHW/H&H at Exeter Cathedral, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Harvey Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I don't think I am breaking confidences to say that I had a private e-mail a few weeks ago from Pierre saying that he was fed up with the childishness of some of this site - he is a serious worker in the field and has always wanted his comments taken seriously. Since so many contributors are not known to him, and because of nommes-de-plume cannot be identified as serious organists or designers he has wondered about the validity of the site...... Yes, Pierre....don't go the way of a number of other serious contributors. Don't let the odd bit of foolery put you off! Maybe one answer would be for Manders to consider providing a specific home for 'Lighter Side' contributions. That and, go easy on people you don't know, chums and chumesses! It's a bit unfair - people have always been nice to me here. I must be honest, I gave up taking this forum seriously a long time ago. Perhaps it's got something to do with working with real workers in the field who really know their stuff and perhaps it's got something to do with having an organ built for my church that represents what have become my ideals and hence I have no particular desire to rattle any cages as I'm satisfied with my lot. Right now, I wouldn't get too hung up on what is the serious purpose of this forum and getting too intense about it. However, I do have tremendous respect for many of the contributors here past and present, for all that they bring (every contributor brings something very different) and Pierre falls firmly into this group. While I don't always agree with some of Pierre's views which I don't think are pragmatic, I've often found him an enlightening and enlightened voice and it would be a shame to see him - and his considerable experience and knowledge (and his Belgian sense of humour) - disappear completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfdg Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 This seems like that time a few months ago when Stephen Farr the Guildford Cathedral organist stopped posting here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusingMuso Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I must be honest, I gave up taking this forum seriously a long time ago. Perhaps it's got something to do with working with real workers in the field who really know their stuff and perhaps it's got something to do with having an organ built for my church that represents what have become my ideals and hence I have no particular desire to rattle any cages as I'm satisfied with my lot. Right now, I wouldn't get too hung up on what is the serious purpose of this forum and getting too intense about it. ============================ That's a terrible thing to say....shame on you. I think what makes this forum unique is the almost "common-room" style (Bar room perhaps), where there is a balance of serious, light, topical, historical, practical and technical. I can't think of a single person who is all serious or all comic, but I think that if Colin looks back at some of the topics, he will find some very heady stuff indeed. For the most part, it falls short of being the typical "Pseuds Corner" so beloved of certain other forums, and at least has a human-interest element. God only knows what half the wider world think British organists are like when they read some of the comments, but the forum is nothing if not lively and inclusive. As for the downright eccentric.....well....that's a very British trait, and long may it live! Breadth of knowledge may lead to apparent diversions and temporary inattentiveness, but I am of the view that only a horse should wear blinkers. MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 I must be honest, I gave up taking this forum seriously a long time ago. Perhaps it's got something to do with working with real workers in the field who really know their stuff... (snip, and not before time) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfortin Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I think what makes this forum unique is the almost "common-room" style (Bar room perhaps), where there is a balance of serious, light, topical, historical, practical and technical. I can't think of a single person who is all serious or all comic, but I think that if Colin looks back at some of the topics, he will find some very heady stuff indeed. I agree with that. Its true that the odd subject disappears off down a spiralling trail of schoolboy humour (to which I'm not immune) but of course one can always stop reading. I would like to think that, on the whole, whether we agree with all comments and opinions or not we respect each others views and avoid personal attacks and insults. I'm always happy to accept, for example, that whilst my personal opinion is that the Gloucester organ, whatever its merits as a recital instrument, is not fit for purpose, I openly acknowledge that very many people regard it as a very fine instrument indeed. I'm very sorry that I don't think Frank Fowler has been active on the board following a comment of mine regarding HNB. This is a difficult case for me - I don't feel I can apologise for giving, as far as memory allows, an accurate statement of an unsatisfactory experience in dealing with this particular company. This doesn't mean that I don't respect Frank's views. experience and opinions and certainly think the message board is enriched by the presence of such eminent figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 I agree with that. Its true that the odd subject disappears off down a spiralling trail of schoolboy humour (to which I'm not immune) but of course one can always stop reading. I would like to think that, on the whole, whether we agree with all comments and opinions or not we respect each others views and avoid personal attacks and insults. I'm always happy to accept, for example, that whilst my personal opinion is that the Gloucester organ, whatever its merits as a recital instrument, is not fit for purpose, I openly acknowledge that very many people regard it as a very fine instrument indeed. I'm very sorry that I don't think Frank Fowler has been active on the board following a comment of mine regarding HNB. This is a difficult case for me - I don't feel I can apologise for giving, as far as memory allows, an accurate statement of an unsatisfactory experience in dealing with this particular company. This doesn't mean that I don't respect Frank's views. experience and opinions and certainly think the message board is enriched by the presence of such eminent figures. Ah, well that's the trouble with such a small world, you see - just about everyone was involved in everything somewhere! Alas, obviously not with "real workers in the field who really know their stuff"... !! For all its lightheartedness and JCR ambience, the world does appear to read and take some note of what is said here - I know of several "lurkers" who take things very much to heart - overtly personal remarks are the ones that do the damage. Witness SJF and FF (who I think has other reasons for not being here at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Butler Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Andrew Lucas (St Albans) used to post a lot - has someone upset him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Coram Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 Andrew Lucas (St Albans) used to post a lot - has someone upset him too? Yes. I note also Paul Isom is unregistered. What a nasty lot we are... then there's David Saint of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwhodges Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What a nasty lot we are.. As a long-standing computer professional, I am and have been involved in all sorts of mailing lists and boards. This is one of the most polite and gentlemanly of them all. Sadly, though, this kind of communication is not yet sufficiently entrenched in our culture that we can all reliably avoid either giving or taking offence when it is not intended (particularly as there is no visual or aural feedback to moderate our remarks or reactions); I suspect simple mis-interpretation (on one side or the other) has been behind most of the cases cited. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Powell Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Yes. I note also Paul Isom is unregistered. What a nasty lot we are... then there's David Saint of course! I don't think anyone upset Paul - wasn't it something to do with one of his own posts being read by a member of his church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 As a long-standing computer professional, I am and have been involved in all sorts of mailing lists and boards. This is one of the most polite and gentlemanly of them all. Sadly, though, this kind of communication is not yet sufficiently entrenched in our culture that we can all reliably avoid either giving or taking offence when it is not intended (particularly as there is no visual or aural feedback to moderate our remarks or reactions); I suspect simple mis-interpretation (on one side or the other) has been behind most of the cases cited. Paul A sensible and well-considered response - most heartening, Paul. I was becoming depressed....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vox Humana Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I note also Paul Isom is unregistered.The way I read it, I don't think that any forum member was responsible for that. As a long-standing computer professional, I am and have been involved in all sorts of mailing lists and boards. This is one of the most polite and gentlemanly of them all. <snip> I suspect simple mis-interpretation (on one side or the other) has been behind most of the cases cited.I would agree with this. As far as I can see there is virtually no deliberate malice on this forum - not now at any rate. SCB was a bit eccentric to say the least and the offence directed at SJF was obviously intentional (since no apology has ever been forthcoming), but apart from that the worst that goes on here is robust, but generally gentlemanly, disagreement and a bit of teasing. Given the variety of interests that posters here have none of us has the right to have the forum exactly as we might like it. Personally I have no complaints. A deadly serious, purely factual, humourless forum would not interest me at all. I get enough of that earning my keep and I come here for a bit of painless education coupled with light relief. The pub analogy is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcnd5584 Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 The way I read it, I don't think that any forum member was responsible for that. I would agree with this. As far as I can see there is virtually no deliberate malice on this forum - not now at any rate. SBC was a bit eccentric to say the least and the offence directed at SJF was obviously intentional (since no apology has ever been forthcoming), but apart from that the worst that goes on here is robust, but generally gentlemanly, disagreement and a bit of teasing. Given the variety of interests that posters here have none of us has the right to have the forum exactly as we might like it. Personally I have no complaints. A deadly serious, purely factual forum, humourless would not interest me at all. I get enough of that earning my keep and I come here for a bit of painless education coupled with light relief. The pub analogy is a good one. Indeed. A double vodka for me please, Vox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHM Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Post deleted by DHM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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