40 Stop, 3 Manual Organ

[Guest Nigel ALLCOAT]

We were all pretty much using everything coupled all the time - I didn't make any particular department-by-department comparison. Nigel A is doing a concert on it in a week or so - let's ask him when he gets back!

 

From a position of comparative ignorance with organs of this type, I made the assumption that the GC and Recit were to be treated as one manual, with two keyboards; certain effects (strings, flutes, hautbois) which are commonly used have a seperate keyboard, to enable the rest of the Recit (i.e. the GC) to be used seperately.

 

N is now back in the early hours this morning from playing on Sunday in Thann and yesterday seeing and discussing the new organ for St John's College with Dr Aubertin. From the former I am still collecting my thoughts! Such an extraordinary instrument - and one that made the imagination white-hot. Now I can answer (perhaps) some of those burning questions about the departments.

 

As for St John's - all is all on time and growing into a fantastic array of woodwork, carving and elegance. About 75% of the pipework is made and voiced. Mechanisms and internal things are all going on a pace. I have taken a vast array of digital pictures. Ask and ye shall receive (a few!). In the UK we live in exciting times. What an array of instruments we seem to be getting from everyone these days. Capital.

 

All best wishes,

Nigel

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

What I am surprised at as regards the 40-stop organ is that very few of the proposed stoplists contain a Swell Vox Humana, essential for much French Romantic and post-Romantic repertoire, from Franck to Messiaen. I shall come up with a stoplist in English nomenclature in a minute.

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

Here is my scheme: http://www.bestsharing.com/files/aYxAH3301...gan-01.doc.html. The instrument here would consist of 45 stops and 45 ranks (the Pedal Open Wood 16' being an extension of the Octave 8', the Pedal Quint Bass being extended from the Bourdon 16', the Pedal Echo Bourdon 16' and Bass Flute 8' being derived from the Great Bourdon 16' and the Great reeds being made available on the Choir and Pedal).

[Vox Humana]

Here is my scheme: http://www.bestsharing.com/files/aYxAH3301...gan-01.doc.html. The instrument here would consist of 45 stops and 45 ranks (the Pedal Open Wood 16' being an extension of the Octave 8', the Pedal Quint Bass being extended from the Bourdon 16', the Pedal Echo Bourdon 16' and Bass Flute 8' being derived from the Great Bourdon 16' and the Great reeds being made available on the Choir and Pedal).

Can you check your link please - it doesn't work for me.

 

(Thinks: Should I be regarding imitation as the sincerest form of flattery? I forsee life here becoming quite confusing!)

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

Can you check your link please - it doesn't work for me.

 

(Thinks: Should I be regarding imitation as the sincerest form of flattery? I forsee life here becoming quite confusing!)

 

Sorry, didn't know VH was taken! Yes, the link works for me. What's your email address? I can send it as an attachment.

[Vox Humana]

Sorry, didn't know VH was taken! Yes, the link works for me. What's your email address? I can send it as an attachment.

Thanks, but the link seems to be OK now.

 

I don't know how other board members feel and of course it's entirely up to you, but if you decide you would prefer to change your "handle" to something less confusing I'm sure one of the board moderators would be able to do the honours if you sent John Pike Mander a personal message.

[john carter]

Thanks, but the link seems to be OK now.

 

I don't know how other board members feel and of course it's entirely up to you, but if you decide you would prefer to change your "handle" to something less confusing I'm sure one of the board moderators would be able to do the honours if you sent John Pike Mander a personal message.

I have already found the ambiguity of username confusing, suddenly realising part way into a post that it wasn't in VH's familiar style. I'd be grateful if VH8 would consider a different title or clearly different spelling.

JC

[pcnd5584]

I have already found the ambiguity of username confusing, suddenly realising part way into a post that it wasn't in VH's familiar style. I'd be grateful if VH8 would consider a different title or clearly different spelling.

JC

 

I second this proposal.

 

VH8 - welcome to the board; but please change your name! As VH says, life here is often confusing enough....

 

How about a nice Plein Jeu or a Claribel Flute?

[Vox Humana]

Indeed, I should have said "welcome" as well. Please forgive my churlishness; I blame the Penderyn (whoever would have thought the Welsh could make a decent single malt? )

[Pierre Lauwers]

VH 8':

 

Too few 8' by the half: add at least two Open Diapasons to the great.

The Mixture is too high-pitched by far -higher than the 17-19-22 on the Swell-

and will stand apart; either you make a romantic organ, either a baroque one,

both in the same never works.

 

Pierre

[Guest Psalm 78 v.67]

Having been away for 3 weeks, I wasn't sure whether Vox Humana had simply changed his name to read what would actually be seen on a drawstop or stopkey. (Are there any VH's at other pitches anywhere??)

 

I agree that a new name for Mr/Mrs/Miss ( ) 8' might be appropriate!

[DHM]

I have already found the ambiguity of username confusing, suddenly realising part way into a post that it wasn't in VH's familiar style. I'd be grateful if VH8 would consider a different title or clearly different spelling.

JC

While adding my welcome to "Vox Humana 8'" to the board, I would also support the respectful request that (s)he consider using another handle to avoid confusion with another member.

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

I will do so happily - please tell me how!

[pcnd5584]

I will do so happily - please tell me how!

 

I think that all you need to do is to contact the board moderator (or JPM directly) and request that your present name is changed. You may need to de-register and re-register with a new name, but I think that it is fairly straightforward.

 

Thank you for your co-operation - I am sure that Vox will tell you that he is thrilled, when he is next on!

 

Best wishes.

 

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

I think that all you need to do is to contact the board moderator (or JPM directly) and request that your present name is changed. You may need to de-register and re-register with a new name, but I think that it is fairly straightforward.

 

Thank you for your co-operation - I am sure that Vox will tell you that he is thrilled, when he is next on!

 

Best wishes.

 

 

 

OK, I have sent an email off to Rachel Mawhood requesting that my name be changed.

[Vox Humana]

Thank you very much for that. You're a gentleman.

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

Thank you very much for that. You're a gentleman.

 

Not a problem. As I said, when I registered, I had no idea that you'd already taken VH!

[pcnd5584]

There are a number of interesting points regarding your scheme.

 

Pierre will realise that I disagree about the G.O. Mixture - 19-22-26-29 is perfectly good (if it consists of good-quality pipe-work and is skilfully voiced) as far as I am concerned. However, I would agree that there could be one or two further 8p ranks. Certainly, as it stands, the scheme is quite eclectic - not that this is necessarily detrimental.

 

I think that the division which I would most wish to change is the Choir Organ. Even the best Piccolo stops tend towards instability - the Willis example at Exeter Cathedral, for example, wobbles - particularly in the top two or three octaves. In addition, I am not sure of the intended function of the Orchestral Viol - As a solo voice, it will have some uses; however, there is nothing else with which it can be paired on this department. It may blend well with the G.O. Concert Flute, but this would be an unusual stop to have on a G.O.

 

I realise that I am interpreting possible intentions from a paper specification - it is entirely possible that you visualised a different style of voicing to that which I have perceived for certain stops. Notwithstanding, there are some interesting points - and some unusual stops. The Concert Flute on the G.O. is an interesting idea. I like the Gamba and Harmonic Flute ranks on the G.O. These are stops which I often try to include myself.

[Vox Humana]

On the whole I like this scheme. I disagree with Pierre though. It is perfectly possible to design an organ that can cope effectively with both Romantic and Baroque music. As I have mentioned before I draw a distinction between an eclectic organ (which is one that contains a mixture of different voicing styles) and an all-purpose organ (which may have exactly the same stops, but be voiced as an integral whole). The former tend to be unsatisfactory, especially when they contain "spitty" Positive divisions that fail to blend with the rest of the organ.

 

I agree that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 19.22.26.29 Great Mixture.

 

Personally I think the number of 8' stops is about right - there's plenty of colour and variety there. I do agree with pcnd that the Orchestral Viol is probably not the right choice for a Choir string; as he says, violes d'orchestre tend not to blend well. (Useful on the Solo, though, especially with a céleste.)

 

I would also agree about the Piccolos. Personally I've never seen a lot of use for 1' stops, or even for Larigots. A true Larigot is only really relevant to French Baroque music. You can find quint flutes at this pitch on German Baroque organs (e.g. there's a 1¹/₃' Siffloit on the Schnitger at Cappel), but I'm not sure that they are that common; I think diapason-toned stops are more usual. The modern wisdom (so I read) is that "bell-like" registrations are not nearly as relevant to Bach and Krebs as the neo-Baroque school tried to make us think, being more or a Renaissance tradition that was on the way out by the late Baroque. I imagine they still have their place in earlier German Baroque music, though.

[Guest Vox Humana 8']

On the whole I like this scheme. I disagree with Pierre though. It is perfectly possible to design an organ that can cope effectively with both Romantic and Baroque music. As I have mentioned before I draw a distinction between an eclectic organ (which is one that contains a mixture of different voicing styles) and an all-purpose organ (which may have exactly the same stops, but be voiced as an integral whole). The former tend to be unsatisfactory, especially when they contain "spitty" Positive divisions that fail to blend with the rest of the organ.

 

I agree that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 19.22.26.29 Great Mixture.

 

Personally I think the number of 8' stops is about right - there's plenty of colour and variety there. I do agree with pcnd that the Orchestral Viol is probably not the right choice for a Choir string; as he says, violes d'orchestre tend not to blend well. (Useful on the Solo, though, especially with a céleste.)

 

I would also agree about the Piccolos. Personally I've never seen a lot of use for 1' stops, or even for Larigots. A true Larigot is only really relevant to French Baroque music. You can find quint flutes at this pitch on German Baroque organs (e.g. there's a 1¹/₃' Siffloit on the Schnitger at Cappel), but I'm not sure that they are that common; I think diapason-toned stops are more usual. The modern wisdom (so I read) is that "bell-like" registrations are not nearly as relevant to Bach and Krebs as the neo-Baroque school tried to make us think, being more or a Renaissance tradition that was on the way out by the late Baroque. I imagine they still have their place in earlier German Baroque music, though.

 

The Swell and Great are, by and large, modelled on my mum's Father Willis (NPOR D08165). However, I would ideally provide tierce and quint mixtures on both manuals. Still, there's no room here, so a compromise is necessary. I think that it is a good idea to have both types of mixture - but, again, you've got to think if you can really successfully make a good, largely romantic organ eclectic. I would say yes: my mother has performed much Bach at recitals on the Willis (see www.myspace.com/jmainscough and www.myspace.com/bachofleipzig ), but has equally successfully played Franck on it (see www.myspace.com/cajghfranck).

[bombarde32]

I think that the division which I would most wish to change is the Choir Organ. Even the best Piccolo stops tend towards instability - the Willis example at Exeter Cathedral, for example, wobbles - particularly in the top two or three octaves.

 

 

I agree - piccolos are almost always vile and don't blend with anything.

[MusingMuso]

I agree - piccolos are almost always vile and don't blend with anything.

 

 

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Gavioli Fair Organs have really good Picollos.

 

MM

[pcnd5584]

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Gavioli Fair Organs have really good Picollos.

 

MM

 

Hmmm....

[JWAnderson]

Here is my spec:

 

Great Organ

1 Double Open Diapason 16 A

2 LGE Open Diapason 8

3 SML Open Diapason 8

4 Clarabella 8

5 Principal 4

6 Wald Flute 4

7 Twelfth 2 2/3

8 Fifteenth 2

9 Mixture III (17.19.22)

10 Tromba 8

Swell to Great

Swell Super Oct to Great

Swell Sub Oct to Great

Choir to Great

 

Swell Organ

11 Lieblich Bourdon 16 B

12 Violin Diapason 8

13 Rohr Flote 8

14 Salicional 8

15 Voix Celeste 8 T.C.

16 Gemshorn 4

17 Lieblich Flote 4

18 Fifteenth 2

19 Mixture III (15.19.22)

20 Contra Fagotto 16

21 Horn 8

22 Oboe 8

23 Vox Humana 8

24 Clarion 4

Tremulant

Octave

Sub Octave

 

Choir Organ

25 Lieblich Gedackt 8

26 Dulciana 8

27 Vox Angelica 8 T.C. or Gamba 8

28 Harmonic Flute 4

29 Piccolo 2

30 Clarinet 8

Tremulant

Swell to Choir

 

Pedal Organ

31 Contra Bourdon 32 C

32 Open Diapason Wood 16 D

33 Violone 16 A

34 Bourdon 16 C

35 Echo Bourdon 16 B

36 Principal 8 D

37 Bass Flute 8 C

38 Contra Posaune 32 E

39 Trombone 16 E

40 Trumpet 8 E

Great to Pedal

Swell to Pedal

Choir to Pedal

 

Pressure-Pneumatic Action

 

4 Composition Pedals to Pedal & Great

5 Composition Pedals to Swell

4 Thumb Pistons to Choir

4 Thumb Pistons to Great & Pedal

5 Thumb Pistons to Swell

Reversible Thumb Pistons & Pedals to Sw to Gt & Gt to Ped

 

I had thought about adding a Solo with Harm. Claribel 8, flute 4 & Tuba 8 but ran out of stops, but I think that the Tromba could be voiced to be used as a chorus reed & a solo reed, possibly on a higher pressure.

 

JA

[Pierre Lauwers]

I prefer that one.

You could have a Tuba alone on one manual, voiced brighter

than the Great Tromba.

 

Pierre