Photocopying For Awkward Page Turns

[Peter Clark]

Is there a rule about making photocopies of a page from a score you have bought to get around the problem of awkward turns? I omce attended a seminar when the speaker said that it was OK for organists when accompanying choral music to copy pages if necessary to assist this and I therefore assume it is OK to do the same for organ pieces.

 

Peter

[Jonathan Lane]

Is there a rule about making photocopies of a page from a score you have bought to get around the problem of awkward turns? I omce attended a seminar when the speaker said that it was OK for organists when accompanying choral music to copy pages if necessary to assist this and I therefore assume it is OK to do the same for organ pieces.

 

Peter

 

My understanding about copyright law is that there are two 'exceptions' when photocopies are allowed, one is to aid in page turning, and the other when a copy of a score is lost shortly before a performance and it is not possible to get a replacement at such notice, provided the replacement is purchased immediately a source is available. Page turning isn't restricted to choral accompaniment, or indeed organ music. A former member of this forum is much more well versed in this than I!

 

Jonathan

[Peter Clark]

My understanding about copyright law is that there are two 'exceptions' when photocopies are allowed, one is to aid in page turning, and the other when a copy of a score is lost shortly before a performance and it is not possible to get a replacement at such notice, provided the replacement is purchased immediately a source is available. Page turning isn't restricted to choral accompaniment, or indeed organ music. A former member of this forum is much more well versed in this than I!

 

Jonathan

 

Thanks Jonathan. I also understand that it is permitted to make copies of, say, an anthem so that the choir can start learning it provided you have ordered copies from the publisher and that you will destroy your photocopies when the published editiions arrive. The same former member, I think, discusses this in his book.

 

Peter

[Paul Morley]

I believe that there's wording in the legislation prescribing the the maximum performance time/length of the photocopied extract, and also a stipulation that the extract should not be make musical sense on its own (in other words, not a complete movement, however short).

[Contrabombarde]

I believe that there's wording in the legislation prescribing the the maximum performance time/length of the photocopied extract, and also a stipulation that the extract should not be make musical sense on its own (in other words, not a complete movement, however short).

 

I remember once seeing a world-famous organist playing from what was clearly a photocopied work to avoid page turns, on television at what I think from memory was a Prom at RAH...

[Justadad]

Idle curiosity only, but I wonder when anyone was last prosecuted for using photocopied music.

 

J

[Nigel Allcoat]

Idle curiosity only, but I wonder when anyone was last prosecuted for using photocopied music.

 

J

 

I use photographed/copied music so that I need no page turners but I have the original with me as well. Common sense must prevail. However, whilst leading the Oxford organ Scholar Study Tour last week (Video Diary shortly available on YouTube - and already on Facebook), they were all talking about an Oxford college (choir) being fined a five figure sum recently. I shall not name it as it was hear-say and thus not possible to have in a court - but they were all of one voice about it.

Best wishes,

N

[bombarde32]

As a Trinity/GH and AB accompanist, it is often necessary to photocopy music for the facilitation of page turns, and I have never been pulled up on it.......

[wolsey]

From The Code of Fair Practice on the graphic copying of music:

 

The copyright owners [snip] have agreed that they will not institute proceedings if copies are made in the following circumstances in respect of music both printed and published in the UK, notwithstanding the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.

 

Whenever such a copy is made it must bear on the first page of the music the copyright line (eg © Copyright 1992 by XYZ Music Co Ltd, London) which appears at the beginning of the work. This information should be written by hand where necessary on the original from which the copy is made.

 

1. [snip]

 

2. Performance Difficulties: A performer who possesses a piece of music and who needs for his personal use a second copy of a page of the work for ease of performance due to a difficult page-turn, may make one copy of the relevant part for that purpose without any application to the copyright owner. Copying whole movements or whole works is expressly forbidden under this section. When such a work has been hired, the copy made must be returned with the other hire material after the performance.

[John Sayer]

I remember once seeing a world-famous organist playing from what was clearly a photocopied work to avoid page turns, on television at what I think from memory was a Prom at RAH...

 

 

I've made similar observations over the years. The names of at least two celebrated recitalists come to mind as playing entire programmes from photocopies, often carefully pasted up and collected for convenience in a ring binder - and all in clear view of the audience. Maybe if challenged, they would be able to claim to have the original scores in their briefcases in the dressing room, but who knows?

 

JS

[Fiffaro]

From The Code of Fair Practice on the graphic copying of music:

...

 

2. Performance Difficulties: A performer who possesses a piece of music and who needs for his personal use a second copy of a page of the work for ease of performance due to a difficult page-turn, may make one copy of the relevant part for that purpose without any application to the copyright owner. Copying whole movements or whole works is expressly forbidden under this section...

 

'a second copy of a page of the work'

 

Where in the Code of Fair Editing and Publishing is the requirement that works should be laid out so that only one difficult turn is allowed in any piece of music?

 

As well, some publishers choose to use bindings that do not like sitting flat on a music desk.

[Nigel Allcoat]

'a second copy of a page of the work'

 

Where in the Code of Fair Editing and Publishing is the requirement that works should be laid out so that only one difficult turn is allowed in any piece of music?

 

As well, some publishers choose to use bindings that do not like sitting flat on a music desk.

 

The Organist is a rare breed of performer who frequently must turn pages himself - and some (of us) have had gruesome experiences with a resident page-turner which makes for a less-than calm performance. Therefore, I try always to create a performance copy which allows me to play unaided. I took the hint from the late Ewald Kooiman who had his folder prepared for the performance. So sensible and so easy for each venue. Likewise, I really do not like the presence of a registrant - although I must admit somewhere like the Sint Bavo actually does require a couple of people who know the instrument and the horizontal array of stops. (I still think that two people are paid by the town council to do this at the public recitals but stand corrected about this observation to the human alternative to Solid State.)

Cut and pasting is quite an art and on A3 pieces of paper that form a book (that gets cut down to size because not every music desk will accommodate such a tall score). Most works can laid out like this. In other words we are doing what the publisher ought to have done in the first place for a Performance Score. Some main-stream Romantic works stretch the imagination terribly (Franck's III - final pages) for instance. And I only was able to manage the 6th Trio sonata (1st movt) by omitting the first section (and start playing from Bar 161) and at the final cadence jump to Bar 19 which I have starting the work! And on three pages - the whole movement which can lie flat infront of you with no turn necessary. With some ingenuity (which does not come naturally at all to me) it becomes a musical game and gives one great satisfaction upon completion. Necessary tools: Good 90/100 gram paper for using with a copier/scanner (preferably with enlargement/diminution of image); a pile of A3 or B4; 1 large dining table; 1 pair of Paper hanging scissors; totally see-through sellotape on a sold dispenser (as you often have to cut with one hand); two cats to play with the off-cuts on the floor.

I think common sense must prevail between publishers and performers in all this. If it doesn't then it is a sorry state of affairs.

Best wishes,

N

[Paul Carr]

The Organist is a rare breed of performer who frequently must turn pages himself - and some (of us) have had gruesome experiences with a resident page-turner which makes for a less-than calm performance. Therefore, I try always to create a performance copy which allows me to play unaided. I took the hint from the late Ewald Kooiman who had his folder prepared for the performance. So sensible and so easy for each venue. Likewise, I really do not like the presence of a registrant - although I must admit somewhere like the Sint Bavo actually does require a couple of people who know the instrument and the horizontal array of stops. (I still think that two people are paid by the town council to do this at the public recitals but stand corrected about this observation to the human alternative to Solid State.)

Cut and pasting is quite an art and on A3 pieces of paper that form a book (that gets cut down to size because not every music desk will accommodate such a tall score). Most works can laid out like this. In other words we are doing what the publisher ought to have done in the first place for a Performance Score. Some main-stream Romantic works stretch the imagination terribly (Franck's III - final pages) for instance. And I only was able to manage the 6th Trio sonata (1st movt) by omitting the first section (and start playing from Bar 161) and at the final cadence jump to Bar 19 which I have starting the work! And on three pages - the whole movement which can lie flat infront of you with no turn necessary. With some ingenuity (which does not come naturally at all to me) it becomes a musical game and gives one great satisfaction upon completion. Necessary tools: Good 90/100 gram paper for using with a copier/scanner (preferably with enlargement/diminution of image); a pile of A3 or B4; 1 large dining table; 1 pair of Paper hanging scissors; totally see-through sellotape on a sold dispenser (as you often have to cut with one hand); two cats to play with the off-cuts on the floor.

I think common sense must prevail between publishers and performers in all this. If it doesn't then it is a sorry state of affairs.

Best wishes,

N

 

The alternative to scissors and dining table is to do the cutting and pasting electronically, after scanning. If only an A4 printer is available then producing the scores with an eye to enlarging them to A3 works well. It's no less time-consuming and the cat gets bored waiting for something to grab out of the printer though.

P.

[Clavecin]

I use Sibelius software and for some of my romantic/C20th pieces compile an A4 sheet of page turns which sits to the right-hand side of the copy.

If there's an awkward turn I transcribe up to a point where it becomes more managable to turn the page, I sometimes put up to 4 'turns' on an A4 sheet.

I also find this very useful when learning new pieces, especially if a tricky passage goes over a page-turn.

 

DT

[innate]

The alternative to scissors and dining table is to do the cutting and pasting electronically, after scanning. If only an A4 printer is available then producing the scores with an eye to enlarging them to A3 works well. It's no less time-consuming and the cat gets bored waiting for something to grab out of the printer though.

P.

If the music/edition is out of copyright then transfer into Sibelius (or notation software of your choice) is a good way of getting it laid out how you want. I have found entering music into the computer gives insight into the music, and in a way that mimics how eg JSB hand-copied all Rameau’s harpsichord music.

 

In fact, given that the photocopying techniques described by others in the thread are probably not covered in the Code of Fair Practice, you might as well use Sibelius for copyright pieces too!

[Nick Bennett]

Works that are out of print are particularly irritating - e.g. the de Klerk Tien Orgelwerken I appealed for recently. If the publisher will no longer supply copies of a work, it essentially becomes impossible to obtain a copy of it legally.

 

I can appreciate that copyright exists so that publishers and composers can benefit from sales of their works. But in the case where they refuse to sell, how does copyright protect them in any way? Dog, meet manger.

[Vox Humana]

Yes, this does seem wrong. I have long thought that a publisher's copyright should be valid only so long as they actively exploit the work. If they let it go out of print and do not provide a print-on-demand facility then their copyright should go to the composer/editor/arranger (even if that person previously sold their rights to the publisher) so that s/he can exploit their work in alternative ways.

[Tony Newnham]

Yes, this does seem wrong. I have long thought that a publisher's copyright should be valid only so long as they actively exploit the work. If they let it go out of print and do not provide a print-on-demand facility then their copyright should go to the composer/editor/arranger (even if that person previously sold their rights to the publisher) so that s/he can exploit their work in alternative ways.

 

Hi

 

I think I'm right in saying that copyright in the actual printed page image only lasts 25 years from date of publication - hence, for example, the 1960's Baptist hymnbook can be photocopied legally. However, the composer/arranger etc. copyrights last much longer - so I guess it's still a bit of a grey area.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Justadad]

I have written to publishers twice asking for permission to copy music that is out of print and out of stock, and both times have been given permission to make one copy free of charge.

 

J

[Peter Clark]

I think that a piece in the public domain may be reproduced so long as graphic copyright is not infringed. That is, you can copy out or computer set a Bach fugue and use this in public but you can't photocpy say, the Novello edition as the type-setting, layout and editorial additions are copyrighted by the publisher.

 

Peter

[Contrabombarde]

I think that a piece in the public domain may be reproduced so long as graphic copyright is not infringed. That is, you can copy out or computer set a Bach fugue and use this in public but you can't photocpy say, the Novello edition as the type-setting, layout and editorial additions are copyrighted by the publisher.

 

Peter

 

Apparently there is some software "out there" that is the same as Adobe Acrobat ie a pdf reader, but tweaked for musicians, and one of the things it does, displaying two pages at a time, is to advance by one page. So you start with page 1 on the left and 2 on the right then when you click the mouse page 2 stays where it is but page 1 becomes p3, the next click p4 appears on its right etc. Sounds a clever system for the totally digital organist who uses a large LCD monitor as the music desk - and if you rig it up to a piston, then you can turn pages at the press of a piston.

 

Personally I always take my laptop with me when I practice - working in Africa I couldn't afford the weight of my paper music library but instead put my laptop on the music stand and play from my library of music pdfs. it's a slightly odd position to be playing in - looking straight ahead if not even slightly upwards, portrait format music is very small to read, and there are twice as many page turns as I only see a page at a time. But given that it's the only way of practising it's a small price to pay and I've got used to the strange looks that I get. The music incidentally is all out of copyright and freely available on the internet (or for a small fee you can pay someone who kindly put together a ton of stuff and flogs it regularly on ebay).

 

Contrabombarde.

[Vox Humana]

I think that a piece in the public domain may be reproduced so long as graphic copyright is not infringed. That is, you can copy out or computer set a Bach fugue and use this in public but you can't photocpy say, the Novello edition as the type-setting, layout and editorial additions are copyrighted by the publisher.

 

Peter

This is the sort of question where Barry Williams's advice was so useful. Unless the Novello Bach volumes have been typeset anew since I bought my copies as a spotty teenager, the copyright on the typesetting and layout will now have expired, being more than 25 years old. That leaves the editor's copyright, which normally lasts as long as a composer's - to the end of the 70th year after his/her death. I do not know how this is affected where the editor sells his copyright to the publisher, but I would imagine that the publisher acquires the right to enforce the editorial copyright for those 70 years. If so, Novello would still own the editor's copyright in the volumes with Walter Emery's name on them since he only died in 1974. However aren't some volumes still the unrevised Bridge/Higgs editions? If so, since Higgs died in 1902 and Bridge in 1924, these ought to be now entirely in the public domain.

[Peter Clark]

This is the sort of question where Barry Williams's advice was so useful. Unless the Novello Bach volumes have been typeset anew since I bought my copies as a spotty teenager, the copyright on the typesetting and layout will now have expired, being more than 25 years old. That leaves the editor's copyright, which normally lasts as long as a composer's - to the end of the 70th year after his/her death. I do not know how this is affected where the editor sells his copyright to the publisher, but I would imagine that the publisher acquires the right to enforce the editorial copyright for those 70 years. If so, Novello would still own the editor's copyright in the volumes with Walter Emery's name on them since he only died in 1974. However aren't some volumes still the unrevised Bridge/Higgs editions? If so, since Higgs died in 1902 and Bridge in 1924, these ought to be now entirely in the public domain.

 

But I assume that the original plates are still owned by Novello and therefore they could claim that they hold the copyright to these?

 

P

[Vox Humana]

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm entering the realm of pure guesswork, but I would have thought that the plates would be an asset such that Novello could lay claim to their physical ownership, but (going on what Leach and Williams say in their book) copyright is purely intellectual property and does not have a tangible form. So the graphic copyright would apply to the look of the music on the page (e.g. how page turns are arranged etc), but not to the tools used to create it. That's my take on it, but I could be completely wrong.

[Fiffaro]

Personally I always take my laptop with me when I practice - working in Africa I couldn't afford the weight of my paper music library but instead put my laptop on the music stand and play from my library of music pdfs. it's a slightly odd position to be playing in - looking straight ahead if not even slightly upwards, portrait format music is very small to read, and there are twice as many page turns as I only see a page at a time.

 

Contrabombarde.

 

I wonder how a tablet format computer would go at this? Then you could orient the monitor either landscape or portrait.