Worcester Cathedral

[Pierre Lauwers]

"(if such exist) who still think the HJ (in any of its incarnations) should be still there!"

(Quote)

 

Of course I am rather virtual ! but no panic, I do not "exist" that much! :lol:

 

Pierre

[AJJ]

"(if such exist) who still think the HJ (in any of its incarnations) should be still there!"

(Quote)

 

Of course I am rather virtual ! but no panic, I do not "exist" that much! :lol:

 

Pierre

 

You do yourself an injustice Pierre. Also....I suspect that with weights such as these on the reservoirs Howells et al from the 'Lucas Choir' will sound totally authentic!

 

AJJ

[swalmsley]

Amusing to see that the ubiquitous ethernet and IPv4 are now very much at home in a modern pipe organ, with off-the-shelf components of limited lifespan taking their place among other custom-made parts which look built to last rather longer. How sensible; these parts are now so commoditised that one would no more struggle to replace them than one would a console light bulb.

 

I wonder if the inbuilt (and unavoidable) latencies of this action are noticeable from the console in terms of a delay in response? Or are they relatively insignificant compared to the inertia in the downstream EP actions?

[Lucasorg]

Amusing to see that the ubiquitous ethernet and IPv4 are now very much at home in a modern pipe organ, with off-the-shelf components of limited lifespan taking their place among other custom-made parts which look built to last rather longer. How sensible; these parts are now so commoditised that one would no more struggle to replace them than one would a console light bulb.

 

I wonder if the inbuilt (and unavoidable) latencies of this action are noticeable from the console in terms of a delay in response? Or are they relatively insignificant compared to the inertia in the downstream EP actions?

I'm told (I think I have the figures right) that the time was about 7ms to transmit each packet across the system - I'll chase that up for exact figures! The actions are direct electric and extremely fast and responsive. I challenge you to play faster than that!

 

Talking with the staff from Musicom, there is a distinct move towards using a standard networking protocol (rather than reinvent the wheel) in order to promote longevity...all new designs have to be backwards compatible!

 

A

[Lucasorg]

You do yourself an injustice Pierre. Also....I suspect that with weights such as these on the reservoirs Howells et al from the 'Lucas Choir' will sound totally authentic!

 

AJJ

I suspect that the weights will give the whole instrument a special gravitas!

[heva]

...all new designs have to be backwards compatible!

 

A

 

... or simply throw out the old lot and put something new in ....

[ick1508]

Amusing to see... the ubiquitous ethernet and IPv4 ...

 

So with an internet connection, it could be played from... anywhere!

Squinius, abandon that Hauptwerk and hook up your console!

[Nick Bennett]

So with an internet connection, it could be played from... anywhere!

Squinius, abandon that Hauptwerk and hook up your console!

 

You could set up some microphones in the cathedral and relay the sound back to the player across the Internet. It would all be very much in the spirit of Hope Jones, bearing in mind that photograph of him playing his instrument at (I think) Wallasey from outside the porch.

[contrabordun]

Does that mean the player can surf the web during the sermon?

[Lucasorg]

... or simply throw out the old lot and put something new in ....

Do I detect some irony here....????

 

A

[Lucasorg]

So with an internet connection, it could be played from... anywhere!

Squinius, abandon that Hauptwerk and hook up your console!

This is actually possible....but I don't want to do myself out of a job...in any case the wireless signal at the console is terrible!

 

A

[Lucasorg]

You could set up some microphones in the cathedral and relay the sound back to the player across the Internet. It would all be very much in the spirit of Hope Jones, bearing in mind that photograph of him playing his instrument at (I think) Wallasey from outside the porch.

We are putting microphones in, but I'm not sure this is the idea we had in mind.....but.....!!!!

[Lucasorg]

Does that mean the player can surf the web during the sermon?

I do hope so....but I'm not usually dressed for surfing during the sermon....

[gazman]

You could set up some microphones in the cathedral and relay the sound back to the player across the Internet. It would all be very much in the spirit of Hope Jones, bearing in mind that photograph of him playing his instrument at (I think) Wallasey from outside the porch.

 

 

Oh yes!

[Colin Harvey]

I do hope so....but I'm not usually dressed for surfing during the sermon....

I remember one DoM who used to wear bermuda shorts and T-shirt under his cassock on Sundays during the summer. I remember him playing some Bach Toccata (either C or F major) and the entire choir commenting on the bermuda shorts and hairy legs during the pedal solos... The congregation was none the wiser, though!

 

This was on a church on the harbourside at Weymouth, where I guess it was possible to nip off to the beach to do some surfing if the sermon was long enough...

[AJJ]

You could set up some microphones in the cathedral and relay the sound back to the player across the Internet. It would all be very much in the spirit of Hope Jones, bearing in mind that photograph of him playing his instrument at (I think) Wallasey from outside the porch.

 

Someone has done this fairly recently in France - using the net etc. with 2nd console computer and 'sound' in one place and organ in another!

 

AJJ

[Lucasorg]

Someone has done this fairly recently in France - using the net etc. with 2nd console computer and 'sound' in one place and organ in another!

I wonder which of these (internet or H-J) would have the slower action....probably the internet....just!

 

A

[Pierre Lauwers]

I wonder which of these (internet or H-J) would have the slower action....probably the internet....just!

 

A

 

I think any organ tat would work as badly as a PC would be scrapped in a Fortnight.

 

Pierre

[Tony Newnham]

Someone has done this fairly recently in France - using the net etc. with 2nd console computer and 'sound' in one place and organ in another!

 

AJJ

 

Hi

 

Actually, it was Compton who tried something similar, see the Compton builder episode on http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N12617 which reads:-

 

"new organ; pipework situated in chamber in North Aisle;

no direct sound from the pipes reached the building, the sound being

relayed by microphones to loudspeaker units positioned at each end of

the building; 2 consoles, one near high altar and the other in

West gallery; either console could control either or both sound systems;" The information came from one of Elvin's books.

 

It wasn't a success! It was rebuilt as a conventional organ by Jardines 11 years later (and I somehow think that it's life in its original form would have been somewhat shorter still had WW2 not intervened!

 

In principle, it could be done today, and acheive reasonable results - but not over normal internet channels - the latency is just too great and rather unpredictable. But with something like ISDN lines it could be done.

 

I aslo seem to remember reading an article - probably in the late, lamented "Studio Sound" magazine - of an organ in one location being relayed to provide the organ part along with an orchestra in another building (but in that case, the organist was playing the organ directly in the remote location).

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Guest Cynic]

Hi

 

Actually, it was Compton who tried something similar, see the Compton builder episode on http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N12617 which reads:-

 

"new organ; pipework situated in chamber in North Aisle;

no direct sound from the pipes reached the building, the sound being

relayed by microphones to loudspeaker units positioned at each end of

the building; 2 consoles, one near high altar and the other in

West gallery; either console could control either or both sound systems;" The information came from one of Elvin's books.

 

It wasn't a success! It was rebuilt as a conventional organ by Jardines 11 years later (and I somehow think that it's life in its original form would have been somewhat shorter still had WW2 not intervened!

 

In principle, it could be done today, and acheive reasonable results - but not over normal internet channels - the latency is just too great and rather unpredictable. But with something like ISDN lines it could be done.

 

I aslo seem to remember reading an article - probably in the late, lamented "Studio Sound" magazine - of an organ in one location being relayed to provide the organ part along with an orchestra in another building (but in that case, the organist was playing the organ directly in the remote location).

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

 

Clever things can be done. I remember vividly the effect of Andrew Fletcher accompanying a Songs of Praise Broadcast where his choir was seen singing in Warwick Castle and the organ remained (in its full fff horror) in St.Mary's Warwick. BBC engineers arranged this for our delectation. Worth the effort, I thought.

[martinstanley]

Many years ago there was a performance at the Edinburgh Festival broadcast on TV of the Berlioz Te Deum where orchestra and chorus (and audience) were in the Usher Hall and the organ part played by Gillian Weir at St Mary's Cathedral was fed through speakers in the hall. I seem to remember at the end GW got in a taxi to join the rest of the performers to receive the applause.

[Tony Newnham]

Many years ago there was a performance at the Edinburgh Festival broadcast on TV of the Berlioz Te Deum where orchestra and chorus (and audience) were in the Usher Hall and the organ part played by Gillian Weir at St Mary's Cathedral was fed through speakers in the hall. I seem to remember at the end GW got in a taxi to join the rest of the performers to receive the applause.

 

Hi Martin

 

That's the one I remember - I thought it was somewhere in Scotland.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony

[Paul Morley]

Hi

 

Actually, it was Compton who tried something similar, see the Compton builder episode on http://npor.emma.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Rsearch...ec_index=N12617 which reads:-

 

"new organ; pipework situated in chamber in North Aisle;

no direct sound from the pipes reached the building, the sound being

relayed by microphones to loudspeaker units positioned at each end of

the building; 2 consoles, one near high altar and the other in

West gallery; either console could control either or both sound systems;" The information came from one of Elvin's books.

 

It wasn't a success! It was rebuilt as a conventional organ by Jardines 11 years later...

 

Mind you, the Jardine organ wasn't much better. Although the Makin device which now stands in the cathedral yields (like most of its kind) far less impressive a sound than its gargantuan console might suggest, it remains an enormous improvement on what went before.

 

Whilst completing my PGCE (some time in 1987), I sang in a concert at a methodist hall in London (Wandsworth, I think). The small congregation had vacated the 1000 seat auditorium-style chapel and now met in a room in the cellars. In the corner of this room was a 1M+P tab console, which played 10 or so ranks from the beast that sat decaying two floors above. The sound here was relayed via speakers. I had to catch a train straight after the concert so was unable to explore the situation further, though I was informed that the main console was still operational. I'd be interested to know if any members have encountered this organ, and if so, what was its eventual fate.

[Lucasorg]

Here are just a few more photos of work early this week - expect lots more pipes any day now!

 

A

[Tony Newnham]

Mind you, the Jardine organ wasn't much better. Although the Makin device which now stands in the cathedral yields (like most of its kind) far less impressive a sound than its gargantuan console might suggest, it remains an enormous improvement on what went before.

 

Whilst completing my PGCE (some time in 1987), I sang in a concert at a methodist hall in London (Wandsworth, I think). The small congregation had vacated the 1000 seat auditorium-style chapel and now met in a room in the cellars. In the corner of this room was a 1M+P tab console, which played 10 or so ranks from the beast that sat decaying two floors above. The sound here was relayed via speakers. I had to catch a train straight after the concert so was unable to explore the situation further, though I was informed that the main console was still operational. I'd be interested to know if any members have encountered this organ, and if so, what was its eventual fate.

 

Hi

 

There's nothing that "fits" on NPOR (we have records for 3 Methodist churches in Wandsworth). Maybe it was another London Borough? If you do remember, let me know and I'll see if I can get a friend in the area to check it out - it's the sort of info that should be on NPOR.

 

Every Blessing

 

Tony