Pershore Abbey

[Geoffrey Morgan]

Does anyone know where the specification for the new Ruffatti organ at Pershore Abbey may be found, please?

[Guest Geoff McMahon]

Do you mean Pershore Abbey or Buckfast Abbey? If you mean the latter, it is here:

 

https://www.buckfast.org.uk/ruffattiorgan

 

Pershaw Abbey hasn't got its new organ yet.

John

[Geoffrey Morgan]

I mean Pershore Abbey.

 

[Geoffrey Morgan]

The organ for Pershore has been advertised, with a computerised picture of how the new cases will appear,  but I cannot find the proposed specification anywhere.  Perhaps they haven't got that far yet!

 

[GrossGeigen]

It might just be the angle from which the computerised perspective has been created, but it's tempting to wonder if that is a full-length 8ft front in the proposed case-front.

[S_L]

From the Pershore Abbey Weekly Bulletin -  27th October 2019

"A new Fratelli Ruffatti 3-manual pipe organ for Pershore Abbey

It is with great pleasure that we announce that having satisfied all the faculty conditions, the contract between the PCC and Fratelli Ruffatti for the new organ was signed by the Revd. Claire Lording on 10 October. The organ, which is to replace the Bradford Computing Organ, will be built  at the Ruffatti factory in Padua, Italy, shipped to the UK and transported to Pershore where it will be installed by their skilled craftsmen. Meantime there will be significant building works in the Abbey in preparation to receive the new organ and the whole build, installation and voicing of the organ will be completed within the next two years.

The PCC …………………………………………………………………"

 

[SomeChap]

Exciting! Thanks for the update.

[Martin Cooke]

8 hours ago, SomeChap said:

Exciting! Thanks for the update.

But is it? 

[AJJ]

Synoptic stoplist from Organ Club Journal 2018/3.

Great - 16, 8, 8, 4, 2, IV. Octave, Sub, U.Off

Swell - 8, 8, 8, 4, 4, 2-2/3, 2 1-3/5, III, Trompette Harmonique 8. Octave, Sub, U.Off

Positiv - 8, 8, 4, 2, 1-1/3, Cromorne 8. Octave, Sub, U.Off

Pedal - 32 Resultant, 16, 16, 16, 8, 8, 4, Fagotto 16, 8, 4.

A

[Martin Cooke]

Mmm...

[Colin Pykett]

It looks as though this might be one of those organs which rely on flue choruses carried to high pitches to achieve power and projection, but without the alternative range of dynamics and colour available from a palette of other stops including warmer unisons and quiet reeds.  If this is so, and merely expressing a personal opinion, I find that the power and projection are indeed likely to be there but the effect can become (to me) aurally wearisome and a little boring after a while.  One of the first instruments of this type I encountered in this country was a long time ago when the Marcussen arrived at St Mary's, Nottingham.  Still lauded as a landmark instrument, it might nevertheless be significant that they installed a digital a few years ago on which they seemed to rely heavily when I last took stock of the situation.  There's nothing wrong in having more than one instrument in a church of course, especially a large one, since they can be used to support different functions.  But one wonders whether the digital at Pershore will actually be disposed of, or retained for use in situations for which the new one might be less than optimum?

[AJJ]

The actual stoplist ‘looks’ like others from the same builder and would appear to be attempting to get ‘much’ from ‘little’. What worried me slightly was the need to have wide scale French mutations, Italian flutes and English Stopped Diapasons all coexisting to enable as wide a repertoire as possible to be played. I can’t help comparing it with the new Drake organ at Chelsea Old Church where the instrument has its own definite identity with the attendant ramifications for whoever is playing. To me at least dinky little flute choruses topped by a 1-1/3 are decidedly last century. However, one can not judge by stoplists alone.....

[Martin Cooke]

4 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:

But one wonders whether the digital at Pershore will actually be disposed of, or retained for use in situations for which the new one might be less than optimum?

I would find that maddening. These so called 'eclectic' instruments are all very well, but it is, surely, utterly bonkers that they have to be supported by a digital instrument for the very use for which they are primarily intended - the accompaniment of worship. I can fully understand the situation at, for example, Chichester, where concerts are held at the west end and the good old Allen is kept at that end for that sort of usage.  (Though, of course, the pipe organ scarcely carries down the cathedral for 'normal use.')

[Colin Pykett]

It's good that we can explore different schools of organ building at first hand when offshore firms are retained to install their products here.  But it is also good to recall that we have our own quite distinctive traditions going back centuries, and to forget that would be a travesty.  To select just one instrument, because I have studied its sounds in great detail over 40 years, I would mention the large and beautiful Rushworth and Dreaper romantic organ not far from Pershore at Malvern Priory, fastidiously and sympathetically rebuilt by Nicholson's in 2004 with scarcely any tonal alterations.  I recorded its sounds when making what would be called today a 'sample set' way back in 1979, thanks to the courtesy of the then DoM Richard Dacey.  Then, it had been tonally reset a couple of years earlier by Rushworth's to more or less its original state in 1927, even though the money was not there to do other jobs such as major work on the action and winding system (not remedied until 2004, and how the thing managed to limp along in the meantime I do not know).  40 years later I am still exploring its beauties, such as the various flute stops (there are 8 and 4 foot flutes on each of the four manuals, all different).  As an example, those on the Solo organ are more 'orchestral' in character than most of the others, and the way this was achieved by the voicer was to encourage their even-numbered harmonics to be stronger relative to the odds compared with the other flutes elsewhere.  Then there is the glory of having 3 diapasons on the Great, meaning that you can't really criticise the largest one for being too fat when you can just select one of the others!  And the way they combine amongst themselves is endlessly fascinating.  Then, too, there are the 16/8/4 reeds on Great and Swell, whose contrasts were obviously so well thought out and implemented by someone with golden ears.  And I haven't even mentioned the rather fluty mixtures with their somewhat unusual 19th century-style compositions (which I am grateful to Andrew Caskie at Nicholson's for helping me to unravel - quite difficult when all you have are audio recordings to go on!).  And the range of beautiful quiet strings and colour reeds -  I could go on boring you all for ever ...  I realise not everyone gets switched on by organs like this, but picking up on a point made by Martin above who reminded us that organs are usually meant to accompany worship, well, you can certainly do that at Malvern - and then some.

Now that 40 years have elapsed since I recorded that pipework, means for making digital reconstructions of the sounds have become commonplace in the guise of the virtual pipe organ (unheard of in 1979), and although perhaps I should not mention it here, I have simulated the Malvern organ in this way at home.  This has enabled me to continue exploring its subtleties from an aural and musical standpoint, rather than just from the physics of its sounds.  I just hope that we do not allow our own heritage, defined by landmark instruments such as that at Malvern, to become lost or forgotten by whatever changes in fashion might take place in the future.

[A Caskie]

3 hours ago, Colin Pykett said:

And I haven't even mentioned the rather fluty mixtures with their somewhat unusual 19th century-style compositions (which I am grateful to Andrew Caskie at Nicholson's for helping me to unravel - quite difficult when all you have are audio recordings to go on!).  And the range of beautiful quiet strings and colour reeds -  I could go on boring you all for ever ... 

Lovely to read all this Colin!  For anyone interested, the full spec of this organ, including mixture compositions, may be downloaded from http://www.nicholsonorgans.co.uk/pf/great-malvern-priory/.

[Contrabombarde]

Fascinating indeed - I do love the organ at Pershore Abbey. Colin you could make a a nice little income selling the samples for a well known software product should you wish to transgress!

Interestingly one of the first instruments I learnt on was also a Rushworth and Dreaper, a modest three manual built five years later in 1932 for the great hall of Manchester Grammar School. It was in very poor condition and during my time at the school it was replaced by a smaller Peter Collins though much more suitable for learning technique on. As far as I know the Rushworth is still present - the pipework was hidden behind oak grilles above the stage so was not removed when the Collins was installed. The console used to sit where the grand piano is and my father and I, with the assistance of a physics teacher carefully dismantled it one Saturday afternoon just before the Collins was finished. You would never know there was a three manual organ behind that now! Immediately prior to dismantling the console we also recorded every pipe - somewhere I might still have the tape though I doubt I'd have the patience to process it as a sample set for aforesaid software program. The specification was much more limited than Malvern and was a very unsatisfying instrument to learn on. Maybe times have changed and it would be considered more fashionable now but I doubt it.

Specification: https://www.npor.org.uk/NPORView.html?RI=N02431

 

[pcnd5584]

On 05/12/2019 at 09:18, Colin Pykett said:

It looks as though this might be one of those organs which rely on flue choruses carried to high pitches to achieve power and projection, but without the alternative range of dynamics and colour available from a palette of other stops including warmer unisons and quiet reeds.  If this is so, and merely expressing a personal opinion, I find that the power and projection are indeed likely to be there but the effect can become (to me) aurally wearisome and a little boring after a while.  One of the first instruments of this type I encountered in this country was a long time ago when the Marcussen arrived at St Mary's, Nottingham.  Still lauded as a landmark instrument, it might nevertheless be significant that they installed a digital a few years ago on which they seemed to rely heavily when I last took stock of the situation.  There's nothing wrong in having more than one instrument in a church of course, especially a large one, since they can be used to support different functions.  But one wonders whether the digital at Pershore will actually be disposed of, or retained for use in situations for which the new one might be less than optimum?

Absolutely, Colin. There appears to be a paucity of manual reed stops, for one thing - and too many octave couplers. The scheme is rather odd in several respects. I appreciate the constraints on both volume and height, but what a pity that the site of the former instrument could not be utilised. This had more height and room available.

[Barry Oakley]

My contact at Fratelli Rufatti has kindly sent me the stoplist for the new three-manual organ at Pershore Abbey. Interesting.

The design of the organ has been very challenging due to the severe space constrictions, determined by the need to reduce the visual impact of the instrument inside the building, in particular by reducing the protrusion of the organ cases to a minimum. In spite of a very creative use of the available spaces, it has been impossible to include some stops which would have been desirable under different circumstances, such as an open 16’ Pedal flue stop, and an additional stop at the Great (a reed stop in particular).

The stoplist for the new organ of the abbey church is designed to provide the conditions for the highest possible versatility, so that the instrument may be suitable for a variety of tasks. Its primary purpose will be that of leading choir and congregational singing and in general for the support of the liturgy. In addition, the tonal design reflects the intention of creating the conditions for the proper performance of the classical organ repertoire of different styles. For this reason, in particular, a classical Positiv (Manual I) has been preferred to a Choir or Solo division.

The space limitations suggested a small number of unifications and thus provide added flexibility to the player.

Although not of large size, the intention is to create an instrument whose stops will all be of distinctive sound character, all meaningful, of classical proportions and voicing and designed to blend in a wide range of combinations.

 

PEDAL ORGAN

Resultant Bass 32

Sub Bass 16

Bourdon 16 (Great)

Octave 8

Bourdon 8 (Extension Sub Bass)

Gedeckt 8 (Great)

Super Octave 4 (Extension Octave)

Fagotto 16

Fagotto 8 (Extension Fagotto 16)

Schalmei 4 (Extension Fagotto 16)

 

POSITIV ORGAN

Holz Gedeckt 8

Gemshorn 8

Koppel Flute 4

Block Flute 2

Quint Flute 1.1/3

Cromorne 8

Herald Trumpet 8 (Console Prepared)

Positiv 16

Positiv 4

Tremulant

Unison Off

 

GREAT ORGAN

Bourdon 16

Principal 8

Gedeckt 8 (Extension Bourdon 16)

Octave 4

Traverse Flute 4

Super Octave 2

Mixture IV Ranks 1.1/3

Herald Trumpet (Console Prepared)

Tremulant

Great 16

Unison Off

Great 4

 

SWELL ORGAN – Enclosed

Stopped Diapason 8

Viola Gamba 8

Viola Celeste 8

Principal 4

Venetian Flute 4

Nazard 2.2/3

Piccolo 2

Tierce 1.3/5

Plein Jeu III Ranks

Trompette Harmonique 8

Herald Trumpet 8 (Console Prepared)

Tremulant

Swell 16

Unison Off

Swell 4

 

[handsoff]

I visited Pershore Abbey this morning. The work to accomodate the new organ in the North Transept is underway with scaffolding towers in place and several men making progress with the job. There is an update from Francesco Ruffati on display stating that the work within their factory is ahead of schedule with many of the metal pipes having already been produced. The wooden pipes are next to be tackled. There is an "adopt a pipe" scheme available for anyone wishing to help with the cost. Details should be available on the Friends' website or you can visit their office just around the corner in Broad Street.

The location of the organ is quite unusual being towards the West end of the transept but on having a good look around it really appears to be the only place available without some piece or other of beautiful stained glass being obscured, especially those at the West end. I'm not 100% sure but I think that the speakers for the current electronic instrument are on the same side as the new organ but in the galleries a bit further East. The console is currently on the South side which would currently give a decent sound to the organist so maybe the new one will be similarly placed.

[sotto]

19 hours ago, handsoff said:

I visited Pershore Abbey this morning. The work to accomodate the new organ in the North Transept is underway with scaffolding towers in place and several men making progress with the job. There is an update from Francesco Ruffati on display stating that the work within their factory is ahead of schedule with many of the metal pipes having already been produced. The wooden pipes are next to be tackled. There is an "adopt a pipe" scheme available for anyone wishing to help with the cost. Details should be available on the Friends' website or you can visit their office just around the corner in Broad Street.

The location of the organ is quite unusual being towards the West end of the transept but on having a good look around it really appears to be the only place available without some piece or other of beautiful stained glass being obscured, especially those at the West end. I'm not 100% sure but I think that the speakers for the current electronic instrument are on the same side as the new organ but in the galleries a bit further East. The console is currently on the South side which would currently give a decent sound to the organist so maybe the new one will be similarly placed.

I think you mean "Triforium", not "Transept"!

 

[handsoff]

Oops, I do indeed - church architecture often foxes me! 

[S_L]

 

Update on the new Ruffatti organ at Pershore. It seems it is going in at the end of this year - 2021

Pershore Abbey- Pipe Dreams :: Pershore Times Online Today (pershoreonline.co.uk)

[Rowland Wateridge]

The grounds of Pershore Abbey are the final resting place of the ashes of Carlo Curley and his mother.  An organist friend of mine, and also friend of Carlo’s, (Professor) Jim Wilkes, English born but most of his life and career spent at the University of Michigan, USA, who unfortunately died just before Christmas, visited the Abbey a couple of years ago and was saddened that there was no visible memorial to Carlo.  Whoever he met at the Abbey was unaware of the above facts.  I don’t know whether things have changed by now, but dedication of one or more pipes in Carlo’s memory would be a very fitting memorial.

[stewartt]

Oh dear, this looks like the sort of specification that people drew up in the sixties. And again we see that fundamental mistake of a Swell division with no 8ft Diapason. Only two significant 8ft manual flue stops on an instrument of this size, and one of those derived from the pedal? Really? Oh dear. Space is presumably limited but is the solution to pile upperwork on to limited foundation tone? I shudder to think what the 'Herald Trumpet' will sound like if it ever gets installed.

Perhaps when I hear it I will eat my words but I have a horrible feeling .........

[DariusB]

 

12 hours ago, stewartt said:

 I shudder to think what the 'Herald Trumpet' will sound like if it ever gets installed.

Perhaps when I hear it I will eat my words but I have a horrible feeling .........

Hopefully, not like the solo reed on the recently-binned Radley College organ which turned up on Radio 3 yesterday? The presenter described the sound as 'extraordinary'  - which is one way of putting it.