Gloucester rebuild

[Martin Cooke]

Welcome, Nick. There are some genuine experts who visit this site from time to time and it will be interesting to see what they say. My own view is that the sudden demise of a pipe organ depends entirely upon what has actually gone wrong and how costly, feasible and appropriate it would be to put that single matter right without attending to other issues. I guess that apart from the blower, the main issue is to do with electric action failing. How frequently an instrument needs cleaning and major attention must depend greatly on the amount of use, the quality of the original work and any subsequent rebuilding, and the local environment. If you're not 'in amongst it', as it were, at a major cathedral, church, chapel etc, it is all too easy to underestimate just how much an instrument might be used. At the moment Gloucester is awaiting a new organ and it is not the first to be out of action for a considerable period. Chichester had to be mothballed between 1973-1986 when it became too unreliable for daily use. Bristol have made provision for this eventuality by having a Viscount instrument installed a year or so ago, 'just in case'. Something similar is going on at the Former Royal Chapel, Greenwich where the pipe organ appears to be silent at the moment and a Viscount is in operation. There must be some major instruments coming up for work - Chichester might be on that list, Truro, too, perhaps. Organ builders are very good at 'keeping things going' and doing piecemeal work - Westminster Abbey is one such example - Liverpool Anglican is another... and I suppose those are large enough instruments to allow for whole sections to be out of action from time to time - it's hard to imagine a digital organ 'doing time' in Westminster Abbey or St Paul's. In fact, I know that it was a stipulation at St Paul's during the 1972-1977 Mander rebuild, that enough of the organ always had to be available at any one time for daily use. I believe that there were just three days' silence, as it were, when the new console was connected. Sometimes, of course, it isn't the organ that fails but something else that causes the organ grief. I saw pictures not all that long ago of Lance Foy and his family working on parts of the Truro cathedral organ where a leaking roof had caused trouble. And there was storm damage at Worcester a couple of years ago. 

[DaveHarries]

1 hour ago, Martin Cooke said:

Welcome, Nick. There are some genuine experts who visit this site from time to time and it will be interesting to see what they say. My own view is that the sudden demise of a pipe organ depends entirely upon what has actually gone wrong and how costly, feasible and appropriate it would be to put that single matter right without attending to other issues. I guess that apart from the blower, the main issue is to do with electric action failing. How frequently an instrument needs cleaning and major attention must depend greatly on the amount of use, the quality of the original work and any subsequent rebuilding, and the local environment. If you're not 'in amongst it', as it were, at a major cathedral, church, chapel etc, it is all too easy to underestimate just how much an instrument might be used. At the moment Gloucester is awaiting a new organ and it is not the first to be out of action for a considerable period. Chichester had to be mothballed between 1973-1986 when it became too unreliable for daily use. Bristol have made provision for this eventuality by having a Viscount instrument installed a year or so ago, 'just in case'. Something similar is going on at the Former Royal Chapel, Greenwich where the pipe organ appears to be silent at the moment and a Viscount is in operation. There must be some major instruments coming up for work - Chichester might be on that list, Truro, too, perhaps. Organ builders are very good at 'keeping things going' and doing piecemeal work - Westminster Abbey is one such example - Liverpool Anglican is another... and I suppose those are large enough instruments to allow for whole sections to be out of action from time to time - it's hard to imagine a digital organ 'doing time' in Westminster Abbey or St Paul's. In fact, I know that it was a stipulation at St Paul's during the 1972-1977 Mander rebuild, that enough of the organ always had to be available at any one time for daily use. I believe that there were just three days' silence, as it were, when the new console was connected. Sometimes, of course, it isn't the organ that fails but something else that causes the organ grief. I saw pictures not all that long ago of Lance Foy and his family working on parts of the Truro cathedral organ where a leaking roof had caused trouble. And there was storm damage at Worcester a couple of years ago. 

The electronic was in use at Bristol a few weeks ago following a problem with the pipe organ's air supply which was rectified a day or two later.

As for other cathedrals planning work on their organs we can add Wells to that list.
https://www.wellsgrandorganappeal.org.uk/

Dave

[Barry Oakley]

Not a cathedral, but it's large and larger than a number of UK cathedrals. It's Hull Minster where the Forster & Andrews/John Compton organ has lain silent for too long. Eighty-plus years have elapsed since Compton created this large and versatile instrument of four manuals and 104 speaking stops requiring between four and five thousand pipes. It's due for an entire restoration requiring a circa seven-figure sum of money. The Minster is a focal point in the City of Hull and just as significant as cities with cathedrals.

[S_L]

15 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:

Not a cathedral, but it's large and larger than a number of UK cathedrals. It's Hull Minster where the Forster & Andrews/John Compton organ has lain silent for too long. Eighty-plus years have elapsed since Compton created this large and versatile instrument of four manuals and 104 speaking stops requiring between four and five thousand pipes. It's due for an entire restoration requiring a circa seven-figure sum of money. The Minster is a focal point in the City of Hull and just as significant as cities with cathedrals.

Well done, Barry!! I don't know of anyone who 'bangs the drum' more for a restoration of Hull Minster, aka Holy Trinity, organ more than you do! Eventually the sleeping giant will sound again and the organ world will realise what a magnificent beast she is!

I look back on my childhood with a certain amount of affection. Sitting next to the console, with the great Ronald Styles (M.A., B.Mus., F.R.C.O., A.R.C.M., L.R.A.M. - he taught Chemistry at Hymers!!!) playing, was an absolute joy!

I hope that, when the work is eventually done, apart from a considerable tidying up, they leave the rather wonderful console alone and did someone mention that one of the quotes received involved some new casework too!

[Barry Oakley]

Thank-you SL. It’s nice to see you mentioning Ron Styles. Such a modest, unassuming man with an awesome musical understanding and organ-playing ability. As you may remember, Ron was afflicted with a most pronounced stutter. It became a source of amusement for many of the boy choristers and Ron knew it. He simply smiled at both sides in turn, decani and cantoris. After retirement from Holy Trinity he went to live at Helmsley where he had accommodation provided as the parish church organist. But after complete retirement he went to live in the Derbyshire village of Brassington and where he eventually finished his days.

 

[S_L]

1 hour ago, Barry Oakley said:

Thank-you SL. It’s nice to see you mentioning Ron Styles. Such a modest, unassuming man with an awesome musical understanding and organ-playing ability. As you may remember, Ron was afflicted with a most pronounced stutter. It became a source of amusement for many of the boy choristers and Ron knew it. He simply smiled at both sides in turn, decani and cantoris. After retirement from Holy Trinity he went to live at Helmsley where he had accommodation provided as the parish church organist. But after complete retirement he went to live in the Derbyshire village of Brassington and where he eventually finished his days.

 

Yes, I knew that Ronald had gone to Helmsley. I had some dealings with the person who followed him there. His stammer was legendary, both at HT and at Hymers - but there was enormous respect for the man - even from schoolboys who can be very cruel!!

I also knew he went to Brassington - to be close to his daughter was it?

A true gentleman - of blessed memory!!  

[Phoneuma]

15 hours ago, S_L said:

Well done, Barry!! I don't know of anyone who 'bangs the drum' more for a restoration of Hull Minster, aka Holy Trinity, organ more than you do! Eventually the sleeping giant will sound again and the organ world will realise what a magnificent beast she is!

I look back on my childhood with a certain amount of affection. Sitting next to the console, with the great Ronald Styles (M.A., B.Mus., F.R.C.O., A.R.C.M., L.R.A.M. - he taught Chemistry at Hymers!!!) playing, was an absolute joy!

I hope that, when the work is eventually done, apart from a considerable tidying up, they leave the rather wonderful console alone and did someone mention that one of the quotes received involved some new casework too!

Having played now and again at Derby Cathedral I’ll fully concur about those Compton luminous stop controls. I do hope they keep them, an ergonomic delight.

[S_L]

10 hours ago, Phoneuma said:

Having played now and again at Derby Cathedral I’ll fully concur about those Compton luminous stop controls. I do hope they keep them, an ergonomic delight.

But it's not only that! The woodwork is wonderful and the console, with, if I remember rightly, the gradual gradient of the manuals, is so comfortable to play!!

[Nic DAVIDSON PORTER]

On 01/08/2023 at 21:22, Phoneuma said:

Having played now and again at Derby Cathedral I’ll fully concur about those Compton luminous stop controls. I do hope they keep them, an ergonomic delight.

I would also think that LED technology would be an excellent replacement for all those little filament lamps... I'd stick my (brass!) neck out, and say that Compton's would probably be a leader in that field, if they still existed! 

[Barry Oakley]

14 hours ago, Nic DAVIDSON PORTER said:

I would also think that LED technology would be an excellent replacement for all those little filament lamps... I'd stick my (brass!) neck out, and say that Compton's would probably be a leader in that field, if they still existed! 

Of course, Compton only had tungsten light available at the time and this, in the case of Holy Trinity (Hull Minster), because of console orientation, could prove a problem on bright, sunny days. The brightness of the illuminated stops needed to be subdued to a contrasting warm glow to give indication of on or off. This was achieved thanks to the diameter of the old imperial half-penny coin. It would form a perfect template for brown paper discs to be cut and placed behind the stop-face to achieve the warm glow. I understand that eventual renovation of the Compton console will see LED’s used.

[Colin Pykett]

It would be interesting to get an opinion from a visually impaired organist concerning illuminated stop controls, including touch screens.

[Martin Cooke]

8 hours ago, Barry Oakley said:

Of course, Compton only had tungsten light available at the time and this, in the case of Holy Trinity (Hull Minster), because of console orientation, could prove a problem on bright, sunny days. The brightness of the illuminated stops needed to be subdued to a contrasting warm glow to give indication of on or off. This was achieved thanks to the diameter of the old imperial half-penny coin. It would form a perfect template for brown paper discs to be cut and placed behind the stop-face to achieve the warm glow. I understand that eventual renovation of the Compton console will see LED’s used.

I think LEDs have been used to replace some of the 'shot' originals in the console at Downside.

[sotto]

Perhaps a little off topic, but I attended evensong in Gloucester Cathedral yesterday evening. The least said about the (girls) choir the best (unbelievably bad) but the hauptwerk organ sounded absolutely fabulous. Obviously the unique Gloucester acoustic helps. What is the sample set?

[Rowland Wateridge]

 

14 minutes ago, sotto said:

What is the sample set?

This has been mentioned on an earlier thread (which I can’t immediately locate), but the answer as I remember was Hereford and a comment that there couldn’t be a better choice. 

[S_L]

10 hours ago, sotto said:

The least said about the (girls) choir the best (unbelievably bad)

Living where I do the Anglican choral tradition is a distant memory but I, quite often, on a Sunday afternoon/evening, listen to Mass or Choral Evensong from one of the English Cathedrals. I have to say that that I have heard some absolutely excellent performances and also some completely dismal ones - in equal measure! I do wonder if the English Choral tradition is always as safe as we, sometimes rather smugly, like to think it is.

[bam]

It's made the news.......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-68223809