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Winchester Cathedral

DaveHarries

By DaveHarries
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DaveHarries Advanced Member

DaveHarries

Posted
Posted

Greetings all,

Mention was made elsewhere on this forum of the departure of Andrew Lumsden from Winchester Cathedral after 22 years amid some uncertainty as to the reasons behind it. Well I guess it was only going to be a matter of time before the national newspapers too an interest. Although I am not a reader of the Daily Mail I read this earlier today which was posted by a friend of mine unconnected to Winchester: if it is true it is rather telling and also rather obvious where the problem lies:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13460091/England-winchester-cathedral-bullying.html

I realise that the DM is probably not he most accurate of publications though! Another interesting side to this is that Andrew Lumsden left with a mandatory NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) which is something that the Archbishop of Canterbury issued an edict against in 2021 and the Church of England's head of HR is duty bound to uphold it. The Church of England's head of HR? According to SlippeDisc it is Emma Trenier, wife of the Canon Precentor of Winchester. In the words of the "Slippedisc" website, "The Treniers must have some interesting silences at home."

https://slippedisc.com/2024/05/cathedrals-nda-woes-deepen/

Dave

  • DaveHarries changed the title to Winchester Cathedral
AndrewG Member

AndrewG

Posted
Posted

Last time we discussed this someone was upset and had all the posts removed.  

I don't think anything more than you've written was included.

Interesting that it has now reached the mainstream media - even if only the DM.

S_L Advanced Member

S_L

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AndrewG said:

Last time we discussed this someone was upset and had all the posts removed.  

I don't think anything more than you've written was included.

Interesting that it has now reached the mainstream media - even if only the DM.

I am happy to tell you that it was me! And I didn't have all the posts removed.

I suggested to the moderator, that some of the posts were 1) either in bad taste and mere gossip 2) libellous or 3) not contributing to our knowledge or education of the instrument. The moderator agreed with me and removed the posts issuing a warning about speculation, and about "making what some may consider, personal derogatory comments about an individual. This is likely to cause distress not only to the individual, but also to their friends and relatives so please do not do so in future."

I am also happy to say that I would have the entire 'Appointments' thread removed. In my opinion and only my opinion, it doesn't enhance our knowledge of the instrument and is a forum for gossip. The Moderator doesn't agree with me but I have to say, and I pointed this out to the moderator, that I would be very concerned if I saw my name and speculation why I had left a certain job etc., gossiped about here!

S_L Advanced Member

S_L

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, John Robinson said:

Free speech?

Absolutely - as long as it isn't libellous, slanderous, doesn't give offence or cause hurt to an individual.

Rowland Wateridge Advanced Member

Rowland Wateridge

Posted
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Comments like these tend to overlook that we are guests on this site and even if the truth hurts, that doesn’t entitle us to use the site as a personal platform and cause possible embarrassment (or even legal liability) for our hosts.  In this case the moderator has given a very clear indication of their wishes.  They are entitled to expect those to be respected.  

Adnosad Advanced Member

Adnosad

Posted
Posted
On 28/05/2024 at 05:39, S_L said:

Absolutely - as long as it isn't libellous, slanderous, doesn't give offence or cause hurt to an individual.

............and, most importantly, does not deviate from the common opinion being expressed at the time.

 

pwhodges Advanced Member

pwhodges

Posted
Posted

I think that the idea is that respectful disagreement is part of a healthy discussion, which is the function of a forum in general.

Paul

Rowland Wateridge Advanced Member

Rowland Wateridge

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Posted

I’m sure that is not in dispute, but was not the scenario here.  The ‘problem’ arose on the previous ‘Appointments 2’ thread and comments made there were deleted by the Moderator.   The subject was reintroduced here unnecessarily and inaccurately.  Can we now move on and stick to the subject of this thread.

AndrewG Member

AndrewG

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Organist and clergy disagree (allegedly in this case).

A problem as old as the church. 

It would be odd for a forum such as this not to discuss what is currently going on in the organ world.  

There are numerous examples within the forum in recent history - Wells, Westminster Cathedral, Ripon to mention just 3 (without searching hard at all).

 

Rowland Wateridge Advanced Member

Rowland Wateridge

Posted
Posted

The moderator evidently decided that some comments on the previous thread were unacceptable.  S_L’s response to you conveniently and helpfully quoted the moderator’s exact words.  This Board isn’t Hyde Park Corner and all contributors have to conform to house rules.

The moderator has permitted all comments on this new thread which is the subject you describe. 

AndrewG Member

AndrewG

Posted
Posted

I wasn’t the instigator of the previous post. 

I’ve only commented as thought it odd we couldn’t discuss it.

I’m guessing it fell under the gossip category as the reason for deleting. 


I don’t recall anything libellous.  (It was sourced from other news items available online).  I appreciate, however, that not everything online is necessarily true!  And there are always 2 sides to any story.


Discussing organists and risks to the choral foundation (allegedly) they are in charge of seems a reasonable topic for this sort of forum. 
 

However, I would also hate to offend or upset anyone. 

S_L Advanced Member

S_L

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AndrewG said:

I don’t recall anything libellous.  (It was sourced from other news items available online).  I appreciate, however, that not everything online is necessarily true!  

All of this may be perfectly true. However, remember that when we signed up to this forum we agreed to following the forum guidelines. Also remember the 2013 Deformation Act whereby a a website owner can incur liability for defamation in comments by anonymous contributors. Just because it exists somewhere else on line, doesn't make it acceptable to the Moderator of this site. A member here, quite some time ago was suspended from the site and, eventually expelled for comments that did cause offence and could have seen our hosts in court under the above act!

DaveHarries Advanced Member

DaveHarries

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The situation at Winchester is not going to end well for somebody, that's for sure.

Two posts on SlippeDisc, both from 2nd June, sound interesting. One reports that the Canon Precentor was supposed to preside and preach for the service on Sunday 02nd June "but has stood down" (from presiding the service or from the job?) and employment lawyers have been consulted.

https://slippedisc.com/2024/06/winchester-cathedral-more-storm-clouds/

Meanwhile the Dean of Winchester was due to preach at Bury St. Edmunds for a service marking the 30th anniversary of the ordination of women but she failed to show up for the service and sent a video address instead which is described on the link below as "inadequate". It could be that she returned to cover for the Precentor but as someone who was not there I don't know for sure.

https://slippedisc.com/2024/06/another-absence-from-winchester/

Things may be about to get interesting but I am sure we will find out one way or the other in due course.

Dave

sbarber49 Advanced Member

sbarber49

Posted
Posted

Private Eye (7th June) has a very scathing article on the subject - a good read.

I know there was criticism of Winchester being discussed (on the Appointments thread) but, personally, I am glad that happenings there have not been allowed to go unnoticed. If a cleric or two have their feelings hurt, I can live with that.

AndrewG Member

AndrewG

Posted
Posted
On 18/06/2024 at 22:09, DHM said:

And they are now advertising for a Sub-Organist.

Is the closing date today and the interview tomorrow? 

😆

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