Congregational singing.

[Vox Humana]

Perhaps it's also worth mentioning that football spectators still need to be socially distanced with total numbers limited to 25% of the stadium's capacity, up to a maximum of 10,000. What actually happens in practice I can't say as I have no interest in the sport.

But why socially distanced amateur choirs are not also allowed I cannot guess, except that it seems entirely typical of the Keystone Cops style of government we have had to endure.

[S_L]

 

Just to muddy the waters a little!

In France, apart from in April/May of last year when the churches were closed we have been allowed to sing. I find myself playing the organ for a Sung Mass, weekly, at the monastery at Echourgnac in Department 24. Up to last Sunday the congregation and the sisters were required to wear masks but, last Sunday the Sisters made a decision that, in future, they wouldn't wear masks.

The congregation are required to sit on every other bench in the church and have to sanitize their hands on entry. The sign of peace has, thankfully, been 'put on hold' and communion is under one kind and received only in the hands.

 

[Choir Man]

Fans singing in pictures here were definitely not outdoors. Yet this is considered acceptable?

[Dafydd y Garreg Wen]

Haven't read the small print yet (apart from the bit that says tenors are dangerous) but the Welsh Government is reported to be relaxing restrictions:

“Covid: Church congregations allowed to sing with masks”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57540221

[sbarber49]

On 17/06/2021 at 09:50, Choir Man said:

Fans singing in pictures here were definitely not outdoors. Yet this is considered acceptable?

No, it's not.

[S_L]

17 hours ago, Dafydd y Garreg Wen said:

.............................................. apart from the bit that says tenors are dangerous!!

That reminds me of the Gordon Reynolds story, I've told it here before but it's worth telling again, of the tenor, I think it was at Halifax Parish Church, who was having trouble with his line!! Some cocky organ scholar decided to help him out - on the Tuba! After the hymn, or whatever it was, the tenor leant over towards the organ and said, in a loud voice that everyone heard  "If tha' does that a'gin, I'll break thi' bloody neck!!!!"

[Dafydd y Garreg Wen]

19 hours ago, S_L said:

"If tha' does that a'gin, I'll break thi' bloody neck!!!!"

Almost word for word the reaction when, as a teenager, a friend proudly played after a service the piece he had just learned - Apparition de l'église éternelle.

That was in Yorkshire too. Whether it was from a tenor history does not record.

[innate]

My favourite Gordon Reynolds quote is the definition for tenor: There are either too many or none at all. When there are none it leaves an aching void; when there are too many it fills the void without removing the ache.

[handsoff]

I recall hearing a particularly over-audible tenor in a choir as being "en-chamade".

[Andrew Butler]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/welsh-government-apologises-issuing-incorrect-20864364?fbclid=IwAR2_IMPavKGPUFqAgnSsTnzO8aXQhgRI5fHRzO0QC8qOfuLasMcuzdntakQ

 

[S_L]

16 hours ago, handsoff said:

I recall hearing a particularly over-audible tenor in a choir as being "en-chamade".

 

LOL - a phrase I used on a number of occasions when acting as a visiting conductor of a choir - with an en chamade tenor - not so far away from you!!!

[S_L]

18 hours ago, innate said:

My favourite Gordon Reynolds quote is the definition for tenor: There are either too many or none at all. When there are none it leaves an aching void; when there are too many it fills the void without removing the ache.

I like it! It reminds me of the definition of the Organist in that valuable little book 'How to bluff your way in music'

"Organists are a strange race...................."

 

[Dafydd y Garreg Wen]

13 hours ago, Andrew Butler said:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/welsh-government-apologises-issuing-incorrect-20864364

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[ick1508]

No joy in the House of Lords here, including the Bishop of Gloucester:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2021-06-30b.780.4

Mr Rees-Mogg has said in the Commons: The hon. Lady makes a fair point about amateur choirs. I remind the House that I am the patron of the Mendip male voice choir. That is something that I take great pride in and I am looking forward to hearing them back in full voice in due course, but that is currently under stage 4 of the lockdown process.

And, ironically: https://www.parliamentchoir.org.uk/dbpage.php?pg=membership 

Of course, professional choirs can be as large as they like, because their rules are set by the Dept for Business. The science must be different there.

Ian

[Vox Humana]

3 hours ago, ick1508 said:

No joy in the House of Lords here, including the Bishop of Gloucester:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2021-06-30b.780.4

I am sure you did not intend to make it sound as though it is the bishop's fault.  It is at least good to know that this issue has been aired. The PUSS's dead-bat answers to the various questions posed really just demonstrated what little understanding the government has of this issue and how little it cares. What has the government got against amateur singers? So far as I can ascertain, their decision is based on slender evidence consisting of that well-known incident in the USA at the start of the pandemic, where an unmasked choir taking no precautions caused an outbreak of infections, bolstered by a couple of other studies, one of them in Australia. Anything more?

[wolsey]

On 20/06/2021 at 18:28, S_L said:

That reminds me of the Gordon Reynolds story, I've told it here before but it's worth telling again, of the tenor, I think it was at Halifax Parish Church, who was having trouble with his line!! Some cocky organ scholar decided to help him out - on the Tuba! After the hymn, or whatever it was, the tenor leant over towards the organ and said, in a loud voice that everyone heard  "If tha' does that a'gin, I'll break thi' bloody neck!!!!"

As it happens, the centenary of Gordon Reynolds' birth was last Wednesday (30 June).

[ick1508]

7 hours ago, Vox Humana said:

I am sure you did not intend to make it sound as though it is the bishop's fault.

Absolutely not, more to highlight that she'd turned up to ask a question, among 10? others basically making the same point. IIRC (I was slightly bleary) I first heard it on 'the week in Parliament at about 4am this morning... the noble lord asking the question that was broadcast described the comparison in policy as 'nonsense'. Lady Barran, the Minister, seemed a little taken aback. 

Is it possible to apply to the government to hold a 'test event', or do you think that they just ask round the back office at No.10 for suggestions?

[DHM]

Direct quote from Sajid Javid's statement to the House of Commons this afternoon setting out changes from July 19th:

“There will be ….. no restrictions on communal worship and singing.”

Can't get much clearer than that, can it?

[sbarber49]

"possible changes, depending........."

I suspect many congregation members will feel obliged to wear masks to protect others, which makes singing harder.

[bam]

After Monday's announcement, are there any opinions as to whether a risk assessment is necessary or advisable before restarting congregational singing, and if so, is anyone aware of a template that is available?

 

[Martin Cooke]

8 hours ago, bam said:

After Monday's announcement, are there any opinions as to whether a risk assessment is necessary or advisable before restarting congregational singing, and if so, is anyone aware of a template that is available?

 

Well, originally, there was a risk assessment template available on the RSCM website - I haven't looked to see if it has been undated or taken down. The full rubric for a re-start will eventually come from the Church of England people led by the Bishop of London but I don't think that has appeared yet. 

Here's the RSCM stuff but it's not up to date - https://www.rscm.org.uk/covid-19-resources-for-churches/

[bam]

Thanks - that's a good starting point if needed.  It will be interesting to see if any timely guidance is issued, other than for churches to make their own decisions in the light of local circumstances. 

[Tony Newnham]

Hi

Didn't Sunak say the other day that singing would be allowed?  However, I think a risk assessment will be in order, considering issues such as social distancing, particularly between rows of singers, and use or otherwise of masks.

Every Blessing

Tony

[James Bradley]

59 minutes ago, Tony Newnham said:

Didn't Sunak say the other day that singing would be allowed?

Yes, he did. "There will be no limits on the number of people who can attend life events, like weddings and funerals – and no restrictions on communal worship and singing." The CofE will eventually produce guidance I'm sure, but whether it will be in time for the MU Diocesan Festival that I'm playing for on Monday is anyone's guess! In the absence of any additional guidance we will follow the government's announcement I guess.

James.

 

[Dafydd y Garreg Wen]

 

1 hour ago, Tony Newnham said:

Hi

Didn't Sunak say the other day that singing would be allowed?  However, I think a risk assessment will be in order, considering issues such as social distancing, particularly between rows of singers, and use or otherwise of masks.

Every Blessing

Tony

The current Church in Wales advice, issued following government permission (largely theoretical) to resume congregational singing, addresses these points:

Particular care should be taken to ensure that a full 2-metre distance is maintained between all households at all times. For this reason, we advise against singing in procession at this time. Congregations must remain masked to sing. For those who find this uncomfortable, a number of places now sell face coverings designed for singers, with an internal frame to keep the fabric a few centimetres away from the mouth.

https://churchinwales.contentfiles.net/media/documents/Singing_guidance_for_website_22_June_2021.pdf